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| Can God be persuaded to change his mind? | |
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| Topic Started: Monday, 29. October 2012, 18:38 (562 Views) | |
| James | Thursday, 1. November 2012, 16:54 Post #16 |
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James
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Confusing ? Christ as man lived within a time perimeter for a while. But does God the Father.? The word "can or will " denotes a time perimeter. Aguinas argued God as without change. Very deep stuff. Without answer from me , I'm afraid. James |
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| Gerard | Thursday, 1. November 2012, 18:00 Post #17 |
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I agree with Bernard on this one. I would also point to the Wedding feast at Canna where Jesus changed his mind at Mary's request. In both cases Jesus changed his mind as a response to "prayer". Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 1. November 2012, 18:09 Post #18 |
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That decision was for one situation affecting one community. It must be usual, in every place, every situation, in every period of history for there to be at least ten just men in any community of thousands of people. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 1. November 2012, 18:10 Post #19 |
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Did Jesus ever refuse to change his mind or alter a situation when asked? |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Gerard | Thursday, 1. November 2012, 20:09 Post #20 |
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The possessed man at Geracene, after being delivered, wanted to follow Jesus but Jesus told him to go home and tell everyone what had been done for him. Jesus never refused to heal anyone who asked for healing. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Rose of York | Friday, 2. November 2012, 00:47 Post #21 |
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If Jesus still healed every person who asks for healing from physical illness that is currently incurable by doctors, would fail to recover. Many who ask do not get better. I accept they may be healed in other ways (spiritual) but the fact remains Jesus did heal from physical illness, on request, every person who asked, or for whom another person asked. He also stilled the water during a storm when he was asked "Lord save us or we perish." I think on any ship that went down, some passengers would have asked Jesus to save them. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Penfold | Friday, 2. November 2012, 01:08 Post #22 |
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I have a notion that God's default position is minimum intervention. Our free will and the laws of nature determine the normal course of events. For God to intervene directly is therefore a deviation from his norm. If the norm is an indicator of God's will/mind, and the indication is that a persons freewill is what God prefers then any example of direct intervention may be considered as an example of Gods change of mind.
Edited by Penfold, Friday, 2. November 2012, 01:10.
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| Rose of York | Friday, 2. November 2012, 01:35 Post #23 |
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Death and sickness are normal to the human condition, therefore we cannot expect God to cure every sick person who asks. If every Christian who asked for a cure got it, the whole of the human race would believe in God, they would ask for a cure when they were seriously ill. If God cured every person, nobody would die, and we know we are all headed for that. Lazarus is, physically, dead. My personal view about praying in times of sickness is "Thy will be done" and to ask for wisdom and fortitude. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| James | Friday, 2. November 2012, 04:18 Post #24 |
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James
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I think the "healing energy" like the creative energy is there ,unchanged , and underlying everything. Both within and without time simualtanously. We understand it as the Spirit . It is described as " roaming the deep" in genesis. The force is experienced at pentecost. Some people seem to have a gift of tapping into this force and can act as conduits. Many people can also tap into it themselves. Christ oftened marvelled at some and told them their "faith had made them whole" as he himself , as man, did not take credit for the healing. But then, did Christ ,as man ,ever take credit for any healing Edited by James, Friday, 2. November 2012, 04:21.
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| Gerard | Friday, 2. November 2012, 14:20 Post #25 |
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I think Jesus, as man, healed in the power of The Holy Spirit. "I only do what I see The Father do". I do not think God is "hands off". I think He is interventionist. But needs to be careful not to throw creation into confusion. I think He is using everything to bring about the greatest good. Only He can weigh up when to intervene. Only He can see the whole picture. And, yes, the laws of nature need to remain the laws of nature. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| James | Saturday, 3. November 2012, 01:09 Post #26 |
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James
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Which takes us deeper, Gerry. Miracles and healings and raising the dead = to what purpose in the end . It just means you are going to die another day. "acceptance" A person may have an incurable illness, and try to accept the spirit at work and accept. One may pray for a miracle, that may happen - but = the day will still come. Talking acceptance of a condition . not easing suffering. James Edited by James, Saturday, 3. November 2012, 09:21.
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| OsullivanB | Saturday, 3. November 2012, 01:12 Post #27 |
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I have sometimes wondered what became of Lazarus after he was raised. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| James | Saturday, 3. November 2012, 01:35 Post #28 |
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James
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Whats all this "I like this this" coming into the forum lately It's selective and biased. James |
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| OsullivanB | Saturday, 3. November 2012, 08:02 Post #29 |
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James (and others) please contact moderators in the way indicated by the anchored first thread to raise any matters of forum policy or administration.
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| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| James | Saturday, 3. November 2012, 09:23 Post #30 |
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James
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oops! - sorry Bernard. Regarding Lazarus - I expect he died again later. Ther is a line of thinking within catholic tradition regarding the acceptance of suffering. Some see it as a blessing to suffer alongsde Christ It is offered up for the good of the soul in the end and towards the sins of the world. It may not ask for healing - only strength to accept and carry the cross alongside Christ. It may have no other end or purpose. Edited by James, Saturday, 3. November 2012, 09:45.
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James (and others) please contact moderators in the way indicated by the anchored first thread to raise any matters of forum policy or administration.
8:36 PM Jul 11