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| The Battle of Milvian Bridge | |
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| Topic Started: Sunday, 28. October 2012, 11:34 (270 Views) | |
| OsullivanB | Sunday, 28. October 2012, 11:34 Post #1 |
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Today is the 1700th anniversary of the decisive battle which secured the Empire for Constantine. It was the occasion of the "conversion" of Constantine. If he had lost the history of Christianity would have been unimaginably different. His victory is arguably the most momentous event since the conversion of Saul. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 28. October 2012, 13:34 Post #2 |
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17 centuries on there are still "Holy Wars" going on throughout the continent of Africa. It beats me how any person can worship a "God" who wants people to be killed for his sake. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| OsullivanB | Sunday, 28. October 2012, 15:07 Post #3 |
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That's what we do. See the Old Testament particularly Deuteronomy 20:16-18. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| PJD | Sunday, 28. October 2012, 21:49 Post #4 |
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"a "God" who wants people to be killed for his sake." That's illogical to me Rose. I mean given the Attributes of Almighty God. PJD |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 28. October 2012, 22:07 Post #5 |
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PJD it is illogical to me also, but we hear and read regular reports of people being killed by othrers who believe they are doing the will of the object of their worship. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| OsullivanB | Sunday, 28. October 2012, 22:58 Post #6 |
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Would anyone care to account for the Old Testament teachings that God not only approved of such action but commanded it. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Penfold | Sunday, 28. October 2012, 23:07 Post #7 |
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A God who expects people to die for their faith rather than betray it just as Jesus died for us. |
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| CARLO | Sunday, 28. October 2012, 23:20 Post #8 |
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Many Catholic Martyrs of England and Wales yearned for martyrdom. It's fairly well documented. Pax CARLO
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| Judica me Deus | |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 29. October 2012, 01:16 Post #9 |
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I think they yearned and prayed for the strength to accept martyrdom if they had to choose between dying for their faith or denying it. They would not yearn for another person to risk his or her soul by breaking the Commandment "Thou Shalt not kill". |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Mairtin | Monday, 29. October 2012, 09:09 Post #10 |
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"How sweet would be their children's fate If they like them could die for thee. Faith of our fathers, holy faith ...." |
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| Mairtin | Monday, 29. October 2012, 09:10 Post #11 |
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Someone once said something along the lines "God doesn't change but our understanding of Him does." |
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| OsullivanB | Monday, 29. October 2012, 09:45 Post #12 |
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Undoubtedly so, Mairtin. But how are we to read the Old Testament? Either the OT 'understanding' is true: God did command and approve these things; or it was in fact a misunderstanding: cloaking with the assumed authority of God human behaviour which we now see as appalling, and, as is clear from the OT itself, was thought so by at least some at the time. If the second interpretation is the correct one, how can we rely on the OT for our knowledge of God at all? How do we distinguish the true insights from the misunderstandings/misattributions. Bluntly, when the OT says "God says this" how do we know when it's right and when it's wrong? The Church stood aside from the radial rethinking of how we read scripture which started about 150 years ago. So far as I can ascertain, one consequence is that these questions are not well addressed by it. I hope I'm wrong and truly look forward to being directed to the Catholic material which will make me better informed. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| tomais | Monday, 29. October 2012, 10:18 Post #13 |
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Who recorded the battle? Whoe then passed this on with an interpretation? And so on and so on. Bang up to date!!! The tear of Faith! How many interpretations? Historians in Britain recording Church histories-Saint ColumCille along the shores of Loch Ness! Yes the whole field is fertile very very fertile for interpretations,such as I read here. Existentialism? |
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| garfield | Monday, 29. October 2012, 10:34 Post #14 |
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The Old Testament battles are a difficult thing to understand, I don't claim to have the answers to why it appears that God encouraged what we would call genocide but I think we have to consider that these accounts were written in a time when warfare was a very brutal affair, tribal disputes were settled with hand to hand combat and slaughter of civilians was routine. They are also written by the winners of those battles who saw their victories as God given and also are not necessarily what we would consider historically exact accounts, God choose a people and gave them a land and this is their story of how that came about as told to their descendants. I have a book by Etienne Charpentier called How to read the Old Testament which is very interesting and gives a lot of information about the historical context of many of the books of the Old Testament. Another book which I have heard good reviews of (it's on my 'wish list' at Amazon) is this one The Story of the Bible I've heard Henry Wansborough speak and read other things by him and he is very good at explaining biblical studies Edited by garfield, Monday, 29. October 2012, 10:39.
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| OsullivanB | Monday, 29. October 2012, 12:12 Post #15 |
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Thanks, garfield. I will follow up those leads. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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8:36 PM Jul 11