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God is a myth-discuss
Topic Started: Sunday, 14. October 2012, 22:25 (315 Views)
paul

I realise that this topic is contraversial, however it is a subject for discussion and I will trigger it. I am doing this to stimulate non-believers to start thinking!!

God is a myth. We are conditioned from childhood to believing that there is a superior entity who decides our destiny. Modern technology continues to progress, (stem cell etc); it is only a matter of generations before we realise that God does not exist, it is merely a figment of primitive man, sorry or woman!

Now one gets to the bottom of the problem, is man blessed with a spiritual side to his/her being? Some say rott, are there only a chosen few who have this innate ability to discern the mystery of a superior monolistic God? If so why? What amuses me are the people/clergy who read such comments and are afraid to comment for fear that they are not following the agreed line. Please,. if you read this feel free to comment , the Vatican will not slap; you in irons etc. We must be open to such questions to reach out to those who have not thought their lives through to a logical conclusion. Youngsters are craving for answers to such questions and to be open and available to such thoughts can only be what God wants. |He did not create a homo sapiens who does not question his being, God has such love that it is incomprehensible to homo sapiens, I believe he encourages questions such as this to bring us into the being of his ultimate love. The Holy Spirit is working through me as I write this. Is that sentence presumtive? To a non-believer yes, and these are the sort of points that must continuously be addressed.
We have a marvellous website here with the Catholic Cyberforum, let us use it to reach out to those who have not yet reached Our Lord and his tremendous gifts and promises.
To me personally, the most fantasitic gifts given to me are: The Bible and the Eucharist. What Gifts to a layman, I am a boy of the 50/60s
when the bible was considered inappropriate to present to a grammar school boy, ie pre vatican 2."
Well, that should be enough to get on with for now, Dominus vobiscum (look it up)
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Rose of York
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paul
Sunday, 14. October 2012, 22:25
I realise that this topic is contraversial
Is it?
paul
Sunday, 14. October 2012, 22:25
Now one gets to the bottom of the problem, is man blessed with a spiritual side to his/her being? Some say rott, are there only a chosen few who have this innate ability to discern the mystery of a superior monolistic God? If so why? What amuses me are the people/clergy who read such comments and are afraid to comment for fear that they are not following the agreed line.
I have never met a priest, nun. monk, deacon, friar, teacher of religion in a Catholic school, or any other Catholic lay man or woman who takes that attitude.
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Please,. if you read this feel free to comment , the Vatican will not slap; you in irons etc.
I have only come across that silly idea amongst non believers who know nothing about the teachings and practices of our Church and mistakenly think senior membes of the hierarchy are hatchet men who scare Catholics into submission.
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To me personally, the most fantasitic gifts given to me are: The Bible and the Eucharist. What Gifts to a layman, I am a boy of the 50/60s when the bible was considered inappropriate to present to a grammar school boy, ie pre vatican 2."
Well, that should be enough to get on with for now, Dominus vobiscum (look it up)
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Indeed? Please explain why, from my first year in a Catholic grammar school in 1951 we studied scripture weekly, culminating in sitting Scripture GCE Ordinary Level in fifth form. By the time we had reached that stage we had learned one gospel per year, Act of the Apostles, and studied psalms, prophecies and other books of the Old Testament. My brothers had a similar religious education at a Jesuit-run grammar school. My parents taught in Catholic schools, both retired in the fifties. They used to prepare their lessons at home, when they prepared religious instruction lessons it was quite common to see them referring to their Bibles (Ronald Knox and Douai translations). In 1956 Archbishop John Carmel Heenan of Liverpool (who later became Cardinal) wrote a book "Our Faith". The first chaper is called How to Use this Book. The chapter has three sections, the first headed "For Boys and Girls at School", the second "For Teachers" and the third "The General Reader". Three chapters are devoted to the Bible, with encouragement to read it.

I will give thought to the rest of your opening post.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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paul
Sunday, 14. October 2012, 22:25
I realise that this topic is contraversial, however it is a subject for discussion and I will trigger it. I am doing this to stimulate non-believers to start thinking!!
My experience of non believers is that those who are interested in finding out why some people believe in God either ask a believer or read about religion. Those why want to tell us "God is a myth and believers are conditioned from childhood to believing that there is a superior entity who decides our destiny" do not want to listen to our point of view.

We have had polite non believers coming on this forum courteously asking us about our beliefs and why we hold them. Some want simple answers, others want to explore in more depth. Some want us to recommend reading material. Members are very helpful to genuine enquirers and it is to their credit that they never put any person under pressure, or criticise them for lack of faith or knowledge. We find they are pleased to be referred to our list of books free or low priced online courses about Catholicism. We give them this link. http://ukcatholic.co.uk/topic/105496/2/#new

On odd occasions we have had "pretenders" masquerading as Catholics, making futile attempts to damage members' faith.

If we are asked to explain our faith we do it, answers tailor made for each questioner. The forum is loaded with explanations and discussions of many of our beliefs.

Catholic Cyberforum Rules and Guidelines make it clear that any person of any faith or none is welcome to register and ask us questions.

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As this is a Catholic web site, we expect members to conduct themselves in a spirit of charity at all times. While discussions here revolve mainly around the Catholic Church and Her teachings, members of any faith or who lack a faith are welcome to discuss our beliefs and practices with us, but we expect all members to conduct themselves with respect for everyone else here and respect the Catholic ethos of this site.


I don't see what would be gained by countering attacks on our faith if they are not happening here. When they do happen members do a good job of explaining why we believe what we do believe.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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paul
Sunday, 14. October 2012, 22:25
I realise that this topic is contraversial, however it is a subject for discussion and I will trigger it. I am doing this to stimulate non-believers to start thinking!!

God is a myth. We are conditioned from childhood to believing that there is a superior entity who decides our destiny. Modern technology continues to progress, (stem cell etc); it is only a matter of generations before we realise that God does not exist, it is merely a figment of primitive man, sorry or woman!
May the good Lord protect anybody who insult me by saying I have been conditioned to believe a myth. The obvious response is "Do you really think I am so thick I have not given thought to these matters in my three score years and ten?" Do you think I am stupid?". If they dare suggest my belief is merely a figment of primitive woman I will ask them if l look primitive, tell them not to be so rude, and say that if they want to know anything about Catholicism in particular or Christianity in general I will be happy to answer any questions they choose to ask me. If they don't ask that is a sign they don't want to know. If they are genuinely interested they do ask.

By the way, I know of no Christian Church that teaches that God decides our destiny. He gave us free will. We choose our final destiny. That is the challenge of Christianity. I love the types who say "Well, if religion is a comfort to you, fair enough. Each to their own." Comfort? God gave us Commandments.
Keep the Faith!

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Penfold
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"God is dead" Fredrick Nietzsche 1882
"Nietzsche is Dead" God 25 August 1900
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Penfold
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In fairness to Nietzsche I should offer the quote in its original context;




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God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?
—Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125


This is an interesting article

http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/philosophy/friedrich_nietzsche_quotes.html

There is nothing new in claiming God is a Myth or in mocking the church or offering philosophical argument to prove or disprove the existence of the Divine within creation. In the end belief in God is something we each have to discover for ourselves and frequently recall to mind, heart and soul in our daily lives.
In a prayer usually credited to Sir Jacob Astley on the eve of the Battle of Edge Hill "O Lord! thou knowest how busy I must be this day: if I forget thee, do not thou forget me."
As Catholics we are called upon to sustain and support each other in faithful prayer and are nourished by the Word of God in Scripture; The Sacraments.

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Douay-Rheims Bible Deuteronomy 8:19-20
But if thou forget the Lord thy God, and follow strange gods, and serve and adore them: behold now I foretell thee that thou shalt utterly perish.As the nations, which the Lord destroyed at thy entrance, so shall you also perish, if you be disobedient to the voice of the Lord your God.
(Which, touching on a matter raised on another thread regarding the soul, is why we should never be complacent and assume our immortality is ensured)
Edited by Penfold, Monday, 15. October 2012, 08:16.
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tomais

Christianity is 2012 + or- a fortnightold, give or take the odd Gregorian calander. What went before hand?
Then as now we are recipients of ever so many gods in all ages in all parts of the world.
Discuss-what is true / who is correct and why Catholocism ?-
Can we read from a Jewish pperspective
Keep on discussing!
Hmm a better place to start then complete denial denial?
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Rose of York
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tomais
Monday, 15. October 2012, 16:20
Christianity is 2012 + or- a fortnightold, give or take the odd Gregorian calander. What went before hand?
Then as now we are recipients of ever so many gods in all ages in all parts of the world.
Discuss-what is true / who is correct and why Catholocism ?-
Can we read from a Jewish pperspective
Keep on discussing!
Hmm a better place to start then complete denial denial?
Isn't it odd that so many intelligent, well educated people who lead faiths, have such varied beliefs in a divine being? Many people who have done considerable research firmly and honestly believe there is no divine being.

The Chief Rabbi believes in a divine creator, one person only. The Pope believes there are three persons in one God. Leaders and members of some religions believe there are many Gods.

One thing is obvious to me, that is that the universe is so complicated in design, it cannot possibly have "just happened". Nothing can be made out of nothing, the planets, atmospheres, gasses, minerals, are all made of something. How did life begin? A lump of iron is a lump of iron. It does not eat or breathe in order to exist. Life itself must surely have been instituted by a being far superior to mankind.

Somebody must have started things off. I call that somebody GOD.
Keep the Faith!

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Penfold
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God is the beginning and end of all things, the Alpha and Omega as we are told in the Scriptures. I agree with Rose, at some point all things began but what caused the beginning, the indefinable, unquantifiable entity whom we call God. But we believe that God is more than an entity, God has chosen to enter into a relationship with what has been created. Relationships are tricky things but before attempting to put them right we should try and avoid the usual human trick of casting the blame for the problem on someone else, we must begin with looking at ourselves. If we look at our own contribution to the relationship have we anything to complain about, seriously, what God has given us is more than adequate, the problem is we have yet to learn how to share.
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Rose of York
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Penfold
Thursday, 18. October 2012, 18:34
God is the beginning and end of all things, the Alpha and Omega as we are told in the Scriptures. I agree with Rose, at some point all things began but what caused the beginning, the indefinable, unquantifiable entity whom we call God. But we believe that God is more than an entity, God has chosen to enter into a relationship with what has been created.
What can we say to a person who says "Relationship? Relationship? With an unquantifiable entity called GOD? How can you expect anybody to believe that? I tell you God is a figment of the imagination."
Keep the Faith!

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Penfold
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The problem is if iron can not just create itself or produce other things without some external assistance from a blacksmith for instance, at what point do we arrive at something that can be considered capable of not only creating all things but was itself uncreated except as a product of its own generation. That entity, that being is God, but what or who is God. A figment of imagination, as many might say. The problem is we are trying to explain what is inexplicable in with the information available. How do we prove God exists? I don't think I can.
Belief in God is complex, we believe that God exists because... for each of us the answer will be slightly different, at some point we chose belief in God because as Sherlock Holmes used to say, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
How we live is determined by our faith in God so if we wish to demonstrate to non-believers we must reveal our faith through our actions. If people are curious about what we do how often does their curiosity revolve around our religious practice in terms of going to church and praying. Would it perhaps be more productive if they were curious about how we are good people.
Wearing a badge saying "I am a Christian" is in a sense an admission of failure for if we are living as Christians people will recognise us as such by our actions, "They will Know we are Christians By our Love" and yet a sign such as a Crucifix can prompt a conversation, in that conversation we can begin to establish a relationship and help people through sharing our own faith story. We can not tell anyone about God unless we believe ourselves, and the reasons we believe will be what helps us explain to others that God is more than a figment of our imagination and is more than a myth. My imagination is capable of dreaming up a comforter and I am capable of buying into a myth that provides solace when lonely and afraid
But such solace and comfort is often experience in a way that is tangible. Someone comes to the door or rings up, is a simple coincidence and yet some events defy logical explanation, people have experienced some amazing moments which can not be explained by science.
For each the story is slightly different, believe in God is personal. it can not be given or taken, but it must be shared. We share our faith by the way we live.
Perhaps the rise of secularism is less to do with the rise of science and more to do with the decline of positive witness.

Well I must away to bed, perhaps later today when refreshed I shall look back over these ramblings and say, "No, this wont do, I believe in God and I ought to be able to tell others why" the problem is I can't do it in print, but some of you are more gifted with words and might better explain why you belive in God, the problem is that my reasons and yours are our own. Each of us must come to faith through our own experience and discovery. Yet it helps to know that others have also come to believe and to share their experience, For me I could not survive without the Sacraments but if you are having difficulty believing in God then the Sacraments are perhaps a discussion for another day.
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C. S. Lewis
People often ask when the next step in evolution—the step to something beyond man—will happen. But in the Christian view, it has happened already. In Christ a new kind of man appeared: and the new kind of life which began in Him is to be put into us.
~ Mere Christianity
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