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New head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith; Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Müller
Topic Started: Wednesday, 19. September 2012, 01:07 (806 Views)
PJD

"Those who consider the Second Vatican Council, or Vatican II, to be a break from Church Tradition, offer a “heretical interpretation” of this great ecclesiastical event. And this doctrinal error is not made only by modernist innovators: it is also committed by neo-traditionalists who believe that Vatican II supposedly turned its back on the “traditional Church”."

Yes Rose, if you might recall, many members here have expressed and discuss as such; here and elsewhere in another place (now closed down). :nono:

PJD
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Rose of York
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http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2012/12/19/head-of-the-cdf-urges-catholics-to-welcome-ordinariate-converts/
Archbishop Müller
 
“Everyone who is Catholic must ask themselves if they are cherry-picking points from the Church’s teachings for the sake of supporting an ideology. Which is more important: an ideology or the faith? I want to say to people in extreme groups to put their ideology to one side and come to Jesus Christ.


"Everyone who is Catholic" suggests to me that Archbishop Müller is concerned that cherry-picking points from the Church’s teachings for the sake of supporting an ideology is widespread, across the board, not confined to any particular group.
Keep the Faith!

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Angus Toanimo
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Rose of York
Wednesday, 19. December 2012, 17:58
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2012/12/19/head-of-the-cdf-urges-catholics-to-welcome-ordinariate-converts/
Archbishop Müller
 
“Everyone who is Catholic must ask themselves if they are cherry-picking points from the Church’s teachings for the sake of supporting an ideology. Which is more important: an ideology or the faith? I want to say to people in extreme groups to put their ideology to one side and come to Jesus Christ.


"Everyone who is Catholic" suggests to me that Archbishop Müller is concerned that cherry-picking points from the Church’s teachings for the sake of supporting an ideology is widespread, across the board, not confined to any particular group.
I'll not take counsel from an heretic. Thanks, but no thanks.
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Mairtin
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Mairtin
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Angus, a serious question - why do you want to belong to a church which appoints a heretic as custodian of its beliefs?
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Rose of York
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Mairtin
Wednesday, 19. December 2012, 20:08
Angus, a serious question - why do you want to belong to a church which appoints a heretic as custodian of its beliefs?
I cannot speak for Angus, but I will say there are people who would be glad to see the back of Archbishop Müller because he says they are heretics!

Me? I think Pope Benedict is intelligent and wise, and I will trust his judgement.
Keep the Faith!

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Angus Toanimo
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Mairtin
Wednesday, 19. December 2012, 20:08
Angus, a serious question - why do you want to belong to a church which appoints a heretic as custodian of its beliefs?
Because I recognise that the Holy Father is only human, has faults like the rest of us and can make mistakes or swallow bad advice just as much as you or I. Because the Head of the CDF is not the Head of the Catholic Church and, unlike the Pope, is not the visible symbol of unity in the Church.
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Seren

I have to admit this all goes over my head, my formal Catholic education having stopped at 11 years old.
But I don't think this makes me a second class member of the Catholic Church.
Does all this knowledge really make one a better Catholic?
Reading all this makes me yearn for a more 'back to basics' approach.
After all, the apostles were ordinary people.

:angel:
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Gerard

The apostles spent three years following The Rabbi. Most University degrees are of three years duration.

No one says this level of knowlege is essential, but we are expected to use our God given gifts and intelligence is one of them. We are expected to inform our conciences. This will mean deeper study for some more than others.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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Seren
Thursday, 20. December 2012, 10:01
I have to admit this all goes over my head, my formal Catholic education having stopped at 11 years old.
But I don't think this makes me a second class member of the Catholic Church.
Does all this knowledge really make one a better Catholic?
Reading all this makes me yearn for a more 'back to basics' approach.
After all, the apostles were ordinary people.

:angel:
The problem is, official documents produced by Cardinals at the Vatican are written in such a manner I struggle to grasp their meaning, in the English translations. People reading my posts can judge for themselves the standard of my understanding of the English language.

In another topic I wrote about the new Bishop of Portsmouth

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It strikes me that Portsmouth are fortunate in their new bishop. He speaks his mind, and addresses people in a manner most will easily understand (plain English with no waffle or unusual words)


Bishop Egan's written vocabulary is similar to that used in normal conversational speech. Cardinals at the Vatican have their own language, Vaticanese.

There are people who accuse Archbishop Müller of denying some basic Church doctrines. I am of the opinion what he wrote has been (understandably) misinterpreted, but not having doctorates in theology, languages and scripture I do not feel competent to explain why I think those who accuse him of heresy are mistaken. Now that documents that previously would not have been read by many laity are available on the internet, plain simple vocabulary would come in useful. I think one document should be sent to all bishops, and a more easily understandable one also available for those of us who are not highly educated in the appropriate subjects.

Love the Lord your God. Love your neighbour, are easily to understand.
Keep the Faith!

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Seren

Gerard
Thursday, 20. December 2012, 10:08
The apostles spent three years following The Rabbi. Most University degrees are of three years duration.

Gerry
But they didn't spend those three years studying.
:bl:
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Gerard

I think they did.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Seren

Gerard
Thursday, 20. December 2012, 15:12
I think they did.

Gerry
I suppose that depends on your definition of the word 'studying'.
I meant it in the sense of book-learning....
So we could both be right, Gerry.
Edited by Seren, Thursday, 20. December 2012, 16:09.
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Derekap
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Rose wrote:

"The problem is, official documents produced by Cardinals at the Vatican are written in such a manner I struggle to grasp their meaning, in the English translations""

Probably the fault of too literal translations and the use of obscure expressions and words!
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