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Who do we think we are; What is a Christian, is it a race or is it a way of life
Topic Started: Sunday, 9. September 2012, 09:37 (138 Views)
Penfold
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Prompted by my confusion in another thread I open this thread to ask, "Who do we think we are?"

As Christians we belong to the largest religion in the world. 34% the next largest is Islam 25% both of which have increased in 12 years, Christianity by only 1% and Islam by 4%. (1998-2009) Hinduism also grew from 14%-16%, Non-religious (agnostics/atheists) fell from 16%-12% Buddhism (Which is arguably a philosophy not a religion) staid steady at 6% Tribal religions fell from 6%-4% and Others including New religious cults, Sikhism, Jainism and Judaism account for 3%, Judaism itself accounts for less than 0.22%.
These statistics are offered just to provide a rough idea of how widespread Christianity and other religions are around the word.
Judaism is very very small and yet it demands a very high degree of world attention, Roman Catholics account for over 53% of Christians that is over 17% of the world believers are Roman Catholic. So this is who we are Statistically, the second largest single religious grouping in the world, Sunni Muslims account for between 75+90% of the Islamic Population. The statistics are easy but what do they mean, who are the people that make up the statistics.

Quote:
 
I am not a number, I am a free man
(The prisoner)

Who are we if we are not just a number in a statistician's calculations.

If being a Christian is more than just being a statistic, what does it mean, who are we? Is Christianity a race or a way of life? If we are a way of life, not a race, then why is it that so much of the world press associates Christianity with, the Western World and often substitute Christian influence for Western Influence. What of the Christians in India, China, Africa, South and Northern America and the rest of Europe.
I have to go and attend to my Sunday duties but the thought that I want people to consider and discuss is this.

Who are we, what is a Christian?
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tomais

Christianty as Western influence? Yes the way Christianity has progressed since a wee while after its beginning it has done so as-conquest.
As a form of believing colonialism An arrogant form of take over-" Me/Us right-all you wrong!
Then so many followers of " Christianity" went head forst feet first in monoplyanism and capitalism!
How is that for a responce this sunny Sunday morning here in the Capital- a city often subjected to Southern colonialism!!!!!
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Penfold
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tomais
Sunday, 9. September 2012, 11:42
How is that for a responce this sunny Sunday morning here in the Capital- a city often subjected to Southern colonialism!!!!!
cynical,
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Rose of York
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I delayed answering because I felt I needed time to consider my response, then realised, Jesus said a lot in a few words.
Quote:
 

25 And now a lawyer stood up and, to test him, asked, 'Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?'

26 He said to him, 'What is written in the Law? What is your reading of it?'

27 He replied, 'You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbour as yourself.'

28 Jesus said to him, 'You have answered right, do this and life is yours.'


That makes me ask, how should a Christian go about loving God? How should we go about loving our neighbour?

Quote:
 
29 But the man was anxious to justify himself and said to Jesus, 'And who is my neighbour?'

I find it easy to love my nice neighbours, hard to love one who is not (in my opinion) nice, but God loves him so if that neighbour needs help I must offer it.
Keep the Faith!

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tomais

This belief in ones delineated belief system,stem from an aear of propaganda,servives in a peculiar and subtle way which manipulated an area of human cerebral construct.
This becomes a core of that being-I am right-we are right-a form of natural "egotism".
All very wll but as an observational process and entity,these belief systems are open to selfish manipulations,so often,alas,leading to death.
Try testing them;ask questions;ask for proof and the results are usually the same.
Christianity is not an old religious system,indeed neither are the others statistically listed; how many others were there before world travel ?
As for who am I-are wee-a small wager there will be no universal agreement;line a good cross section of the worlds people side by side and pose the same question.
OOps some will immediately be into the zoo-man set of theories.
Further posts please on a large postage stamp.
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Penfold
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tomais' cynicism in his earlier post reflects some of the thoughts that prompted me to open this thread. We live in an age which is cynical of all things religious, perhaps it was always so. Alas however there are obvious signs of that cynicism eroding our own confidence and weakening our resolve to bear witness to Christ.

Christianity was not spread at the point of a sward, on the contrary the early years and indeed even up to the present time in places such in Asia and Africa Christians are suffering persecution, in the middle East communities such as the Catholic community in Basra (Iraq) which was founded in around 45 AD by one of the 72 disciples and iis now struggling to survive with the backwash of the West's intervention that has allowed the Shia Muslim population to dismiss them as a "Western influence". Neighbours, Muslim and Christian had lived together peacably for years prior to this latest episode.
The Apostle St Jude established many communities through out Mesopotamia and along the North African Coast to Lybia and northwards to Armenia (He is still venerated in parts of the East as the Apostle to the Armenians) before being martyred in Beirut.
St Thomas took the faith to India and their is still a thriving community that can trace its lineage back to St Thomas.
St Bartholomew was martyred in Armenia
Matthew suffered martyrdom in Ethiopia, killed by a sword wound.
It was not until the age of Constantine in 321 AD that with the backing of the Roman Emperor that the spread of Christianity became a flood rather than a trickle and unfortunately this was also the begining of the split between western and eastern Christians that has continued to this day. However in both east and west Christianity became more and more established and it was not until the rise of Islam that the Eastern and North African Churches were put to the sward or forced to embrace Islam. However for several hundred years Christians and Muslims co-existed in Spain peacefully.
Enough of the history lesson for now the point is that from remote Ireland, and possibly thanks to St Brendan even the North of America, to East of the Urals; from the South of India and along the Cost of East Africa Christianity has established itself relatively peacefully until near the end of the 11th Century. When the the first Crusade, the peoples crusade, was begun; 1096 - 1099 over the next 170 years 9 crusade would occur though some were of little military significance and were little more than a political enterprise designed to win favour rather than actually being organised and sanctioned by the Church, they were done in the name of Christ.
A few hundred years pass before the next major conquests in the West in Southern and Central America, but more of that later.

In the church today thanks in part to recent conflicts in the Middle East there are a great many who claim that Christianity should stay away and the west has no place in the Middle East. Well lets split this down, the western governments have economic interests in the middle east that are essential for the prosperity of their home territories so politically this makes the Middle East an area for the Western Governments to have a legitimate interest, trade and trade routes have been the cause and focus of wars since before history was recorded. The Christian Church, as mentioned above, pre-dates Islam and many so their is a legitimate reason for the Christian Church to be concerned with and for the Communities in these regions. But the Christian interest is not the same as the political/commercial interest. However certain factions in Islam are using the Political dispute to give them an excuse to persecute the Christians and to claim persecution by the West if they are denied the "Right" to establish a mosque in an Western town or city. We acquiesce because we have believed the propaganda that paints us as the villain.
In a sense we have lost confidence in our own identity and right to exist because we carry the baggage of guilt for the Crusades, the Atrocities of the Conquistadors and our silence during the pogroms and Holocaust against the Jews.
We as Christians carry the guilt but is it ours to carry?
I want to walk tall as a Christian, in particular I wish to rejoice in my belonging to the Catholic Faith. But... and this links to today's readings... it is not enough to be proud of the label, it is not sufficient to carry a crucifix on a chain around ones neck or a cross or fish on ones lapel. People should look at us and say, "That person is a good person...I wonder what is their secret? What makes them tick? Who are they?" and so that brings me back to the question I began with, Who do we think we are?
The Cynical answer says we are the heirs to a rotten organisation that caused terror and spread fear and corruption throughout the world, or there is the truth. The problem is we have hung our heads so low in shame that perhaps we have forgotten that the truth. But what will make us raise our heads, what makes us happy to be Catholic, what is it that people will see in us that will help to lift the negative, cynical perception that people have of us, and sadly we seam to have of ourselves.
How do we recover the joyous zeal of the early church, how do we bring Christ back into the Christian Identity? That Question perhaps answers itself, if we put Christ Back into Christianity all else will follow. We must be confident that we are Christians, not just people who carry the label. We must strip away the layers of perceived dependence upon the treasures of this world, that have left us so readily identifiable with the Western Commercial and political interests, and be seen to be concerned with the well being of all peoples. We must be seen to come as Christ, not, as tomais correctly observed, as conquerors. We need to take pride in who we are, Christians. That is why I ask. who do we think we are for the evidence suggests that the cynics are right to wonder.
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CARLO
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A Christian for me is simply a follower of Christ.

There are numerous varieties of Christian denominations, groups and sects each with its own interpretation of the implications of Christianity for the individual. In addition there is an even greater number of individuals who describe themselves as Christian but who adopt their own personal interpretation of Christianity without guidance from any organised group.

The term I use is Catholic, rarely Christian and never do I use the term Christian without qualifying it by saying I am a Catholic.

Catholicism certainly is not associated with the West alone. Indeed I think its greatest areas of growth are in Africa and South America and arguably it has been less successful in the West during the last 40 years or so.

Pax

CARLO

:hereticrepellent:
Edited by CARLO, Monday, 10. September 2012, 18:03.
Judica me Deus
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Rose of York
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If somebody says to me "I've no time for religion" I reply "I have, I'm a Christian." That surprises them, they think Christians are batty but they don't think I'm batty (yet). Then they ask what church I go to, I say I am a Catholic. Some don't know Catholics are Christians!
Keep the Faith!

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Penfold
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Rose of York
Sunday, 9. September 2012, 22:47
If somebody says to me "I've no time for religion" I reply "I have, I'm a Christian." That surprises them, they think Christians are batty but they don't think I'm batty (yet). Then they ask what church I go to, I say I am a Catholic. Some don't know Catholics are Christians!
When asked where I live I usually give the Town first, it gets people into the right area, once they engage and acknowlege they know where the town is I might then give the street, eventually I give the house number and maybe invite them in for tea, however I could try it the other way round,
"Hi I am Penfold...pop round, 21, Victoria Road 5 O'Clock ok. and then head of to the shops, buy a nice cake and some ham for sandwiches and a nice fresh loaf. At 17.15 I might just spare a thought for the poor sod who at the crack of dawn in Victoria Road Manchester when I am in Salford.

However joking aside Rose you do raise an good point, Why is it that Catholicism and Christianity have become disconnected to the point that some people do not realise that Catholics are Christians. I am a Christian because I follow Christ, I am a Catholic because I know I can not follow Him on my own, I need support and the Catholic Church is the only one that offers the support I need.

How we present ourselves and introduce ourselves is important, however in England I find that Catholic still needs qualifying for High Anglicans will introduce themselves as Catholic. So labels are not always as clear as they ought to be.

Oddly in my line of work most people guess I am Catholic, the bit of Salt carton round the neck usually gives them a clue (it use to be fairy liquid untill they went transparent) :yahoo:
Edited by Penfold, Sunday, 9. September 2012, 23:30.
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tomais

Point made; by posting points of cynacism then that provokes better and wider responces; this is what is done in other such teacing groups; an old and old technique.
In religious circles,Catholic circles,priests employ this-New College does too.
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Rose of York
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If, a mere lay Catholic, could try making a statement to the Press, telling them who we think we are. My statement would most likely be binned.

I suggest our bishops start including words such as "God" and "Jesus" when they address the media. The public perception is that we are bossed about by Popes. It would help if, for example, Cardinal O'Brien were to include references to God's law, when he makes his pronouncements to the Press. An atheist can talk about "society".

We made a song and dance about a visit by the Pope, lets shout about Jesus. Then the public in general might catch on we are people who pray, and our Church teaches that we must obey God.

Remove the photos of bishops from diocesan website front pages. Put Christ there. The bishop's image can be in his own page accessed from a menu.
Keep the Faith!

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