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Catholics in high political office
Topic Started: Friday, 17. August 2012, 22:17 (500 Views)
Deacon Robert
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If Ryan paid as much attention to paragraphs 2404, 2405, 2406, 2407 of the CCC as he appears to pay to paragraphs 2401 and 2403

please cite source
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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CARLO
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Rose of York
Saturday, 18. August 2012, 19:22
paul
Saturday, 18. August 2012, 18:37
I get the impression that Catholics in high office are tarred with the same brush as Jews.
It's news to me that Jewish politicians are tarred, in the UK, with any brush.
paul
Saturday, 18. August 2012, 18:37
I think the general public are suspicious of Vatican influence on catholic leaders.
My friends include atheists, a pagan, evangelical Christians, methodists, members of the Church of England, non-church attending believers in Christianity and some who are just not interested in religion. Among them there is a wide variation of interest and activity in politics. None of them has said a thing about Iain Duncan Smith, Ann Widecombe, Tony Blair or Baroness Shirley Williams being Catholics. Since the election of John Fitzgerald Kennedy to Presidency of the USA I have not heard of suspicions of Vatican influence on Catholic leaders.

Don't you just yearn for 'Vatican influence on Catholic leaders?'

Oremus


CARLO

:hereticrepellent:
Judica me Deus
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OsullivanB

As in Spain under Franco and many South American countries under their dictators?

Or which historical examples did you have in mind?
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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CARLO
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OsullivanB
Sunday, 19. August 2012, 21:19
As in Spain under Franco and many South American countries under their dictators?

Or which historical examples did you have in mind?
Tut tut - do you associate Vatican influence only with negativity?

Shame on you!


De profundis
Out of the depths


CARLO
:betterLatin:
Judica me Deus
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Rose of York
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CARLO
Sunday, 19. August 2012, 21:18
Rose of York
Saturday, 18. August 2012, 19:22
paul
Saturday, 18. August 2012, 18:37
I get the impression that Catholics in high office are tarred with the same brush as Jews.
It's news to me that Jewish politicians are tarred, in the UK, with any brush.
paul
Saturday, 18. August 2012, 18:37
I think the general public are suspicious of Vatican influence on catholic leaders.
My friends include atheists, a pagan, evangelical Christians, methodists, members of the Church of England, non-church attending believers in Christianity and some who are just not interested in religion. Among them there is a wide variation of interest and activity in politics. None of them has said a thing about Iain Duncan Smith, Ann Widecombe, Tony Blair or Baroness Shirley Williams being Catholics. Since the election of John Fitzgerald Kennedy to Presidency of the USA I have not heard of suspicions of Vatican influence on Catholic leaders.

Don't you just yearn for 'Vatican influence on Catholic leaders?'

CARLO

Not particularly.

I would hope that any Catholic leader will be influenced by the Word of God. There are excellent encyclicals about most political issues, including poverty, relationship between employer and employee, land owner and land user, war. Vatican leaders (I speak not of Popes when speaking ex Cathedra) are not by default the best guides for Catholic politicians. Their standards of knowledge and justice will vary. We have had politicians, trade union presidents, and business leaders of all faiths and none, whose example is worth following.
Keep the Faith!

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OsullivanB

CARLO
Sunday, 19. August 2012, 21:26
OsullivanB
Sunday, 19. August 2012, 21:19
As in Spain under Franco and many South American countries under their dictators?

Or which historical examples did you have in mind?
Tut tut - do you associate Vatican influence only with negativity?

Shame on you!


De profundis
Out of the depths


CARLO
:betterLatin:
I invited you to remind me of the positive examples. Doubtless you will in time.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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OsullivanB

Deacon Robert
Sunday, 19. August 2012, 21:11
If Ryan paid as much attention to paragraphs 2404, 2405, 2406, 2407 of the CCC as he appears to pay to paragraphs 2401 and 2403

please cite source
The Economist 18th August 2012
 
...with the top rate of income tax falling from 35% to 25%, the rich would benefit while spending cuts hit the poor disproportionately.
Because Mr Ryan, in true Republican fashion, wants to increase spending on defence, everything else- poverty relief, transport infrastructure, environmental protection and education, for instance - will have to be squeezed intolerably.

(My emboldening)

The Economist is not hostile to the Republican party. Earlier in the same leader it wrote:
Quote:
 
There is much to like about the personable Mr Ryan. He is a brave man: he was the first politician to produce a budget with a plausible plan for closing the deficit, which he did in April last year. He constantly reminds America that deficit reduction i a necessity not a luxury; and since Barack Obama has failed to do this, his persistence is especially welcome.

After saying much else in his praise it said this:
Quote:
 
In principle, this is laudable; but there is a worrying gap in his plans.
It then goes on to identify the perceived gap in a passage from which my opening citation was taken.

I should perhaps add that it was not and is not my intention to provoke a discussion about the respective merits of the candidates. I am responding to a request for justification of my post. It was Deacon Robert who posted a quasi-endorsement from one candidate's bishop. I was struck by the fact that the bishop's statement in a passage reproduced below referred to the right to private property as a fundamental issue for the formation of a Catholic conscience. That seemed to me to be a selective reading of the Church's teaching as expounded in all the paragraphs I cited above.

the posted report of Bishop Morlino's statement
 
"Some of the most fundamental issues for the formation of a Catholic conscience are as follows: sacredness of human life from conception to natural death, marriage, religious freedom and freedom of conscience, and a right to private property,” he said. “Violations of the above involve intrinsic evil — that is, an evil which cannot be justified by any circumstances whatsoever. These evils are examples of direct pollution of the ecology of human nature and can be discerned as such by human reason alone. Thus, all people of good will who wish to follow human reason should deplore any and all violations in the above areas, without exception. The violations would be: abortion, euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide, same-sex marriage, government-coerced secularism, and socialism.”


I should, perhaps, add that I had read Bishop Morlino's statement before it was posted. I had made my own decision not to post it, despite my reservations now expressed, because I foresaw where it might lead. For what its worth, I have reservations about all four candidates for P and VP. However, Ryan is the only one about whom what amounts to a Roman Catholic ecclesiastical endorsement* has been posted.

*I am aware that the Bishop disclaimed endorsement. That seemed to me to be nonsense.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Derekap
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I get the impression that Bishop Robert Molino is not endorsing the candidature of Mr Ryan but.....

What the Bishop went on to say could have been could have excluded any reference to Mr Ryan.
Derekap
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OsullivanB

Derekap
Monday, 20. August 2012, 14:17
I get the impression that Bishop Robert Molino is not endorsing the candidature of Mr Ryan but.....

What the Bishop went on to say could have been could have excluded any reference to Mr Ryan.
Quote:
 
Vice Presidential Candidate Ryan is aware of Catholic Social Teaching and is very careful to fashion and form his conclusions in accord with the principles mentioned above. Of that I have no doubt.
I mistook that for something akin to an endorsement. Sorry if I am wrong, but I think others reading it might understand it in the same way I did.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Deacon Robert
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My post of the Bishop's comment was in reply to Derek's post #2 which asked if either were pacticing or CINO. As he is a national figure, I think his Bishop would have a good idea.

Cardinal Dolan of New York seems to have the same opinion based on a personal relationship.

Here in the US we can not endorse either a party or a candidate due to IRS regulations. I can atest to the fact that every election cycle we all recieve letters reminding and directing us to be very careful what we say and do.
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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Rose of York
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Deacon Robert
Monday, 20. August 2012, 19:43
Here in the US we can not endorse either a party or a candidate due to IRS regulations. I can atest to the fact that every election cycle we all recieve letters reminding and directing us to be very careful what we say and do.
The same rule applies here. Because the dioceses and religious orders are registered charities, which makes them exempt from tax, they may not endorse political parties or candidates.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Deacon Robert
Monday, 20. August 2012, 19:43
My post of the Bishop's comment was in reply to Derek's post #2 which asked if either were pacticing or CINO. As he is a national figure, I think his Bishop would have a good idea.

Cardinal Dolan of New York seems to have the same opinion based on a personal relationship.

Here in the US we can not endorse either a party or a candidate due to IRS regulations. I can atest to the fact that every election cycle we all recieve letters reminding and directing us to be very careful what we say and do.
Cardinal Dolan spoke on Sirius Catholic Channel radio show Thursday, expressing his opinion of Paul Ryan.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/314272/dolan-ryan-great-public-servant-kathryn-jean-lopez

The Cardinal said he was “speaking personally and not from a partisan point of view. . . . But I have immense regard and admiration and affection for him, just personally.” Dolan added that he is “happy” his friend has the “honor” of being on a national ticket." then went on to admire the congressman's political policies, ending with "So I admire him. He’s honest. He’s refreshing. Do I agree with everything? No, but . . . I’m anxious to see him in action."

Is that not an endorsement of a candidate for political office?
Keep the Faith!

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OsullivanB

New York Times
 
Dolan to Give Benediction at Gathering of the G.O.P.
By SHARON OTTERMAN
Published: August 22, 2012

Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan, the archbishop of New York, will deliver the closing prayer at the Republican National Convention in Tampa, Fla., after Mitt Romney accepts the party’s presidential nomination next week.
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Mr. Romney revealed the news in an interview with the Roman Catholic broadcaster EWTN that is to be shown on Thursday evening. The host of the program, Raymond Arroyo, shared excerpts from the interview on Wednesday.

Joseph Zwilling, spokesman for the Archdiocese of New York, said Cardinal Dolan’s agreement to participate, which occurred “within the last two weeks,” should not be seen as partisan.

“Cardinal Dolan is going to pray, not to engage in partisan politics,” Mr. Zwilling said. “He made it clear when he accepted the invitation that he would also accept an invitation from the Democratic National Committee to offer a prayer at their convention, should they ask.

“He is going simply to pray, which is part of what a priest should do.”

Before accepting the invitation, Cardinal Dolan told the convention organizers that it was standard church practice for the local bishop of the area to give the blessing. But, Mr. Zwilling said, “they said we would really like you to do it,” so he checked with Robert Nugent Lynch, the bishop of St. Petersburg, Fla., and he had no objection.

Asked in the interview about the opposition of Catholic bishops to the Obama administration’s health care mandates on birth control, Mr. Romney said: “Well, first of all, I’ll continue to meet with Cardinal Dolan, who, by the way, is going to offer the benediction on the last evening of the Republican Convention after my acceptance speech. So I am making it very clear that the interest of religious freedom is something I support wholeheartedly.”

Cardinal Dolan and Representative Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, who is Mr. Romney’s pick for vice president, are close; they were good friends during the years that the cardinal served as archbishop of Milwaukee, from 2002 to 2009.


Good to know it is non-partisan and certainly not an endorsement. His Eminence is flying 1,000 miles "to pray". I know NY has a dubious reputation, but I think it is still possible to pray there.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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OsullivanB

8/21/2012 - 2:59 PM PST

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
MEDIA ADVISORY
Catholic PRWire

IRONDALE, AL (August 21, 2012) - GOP Presidential Candidate Mitt Romney sits down for an exclusive interview with EWTN News Director and Anchor Raymond Arroyo at 8 p.m. ET, Thursday, Aug. 23 on EWTN’s news and opinion program, “The World Over.” (Find EWTN at www.ewtn.com/channelfinder.)

“During this interview, Gov. Romney breaks news about what we can expect at the Republican National Convention and reacts to charges by President Obama that he chose Paul Ryan as his running mate to lower his personal tax burden,” Arroyo said. “He also talks about the hot issue of religious liberty, the role of prayer in his life, and how being a bishop in the Mormon Church prepared him for the presidency.”

EWTN Global Catholic Network, in its 32th year, is available in over 200 million television households in more than 140 countries and territories. With its direct broadcast satellite television and radio services, AM & FM radio networks, worldwide short-wave radio station, Internet website www.ewtn.com, electronic and print news services, and publishing arm, EWTN is the largest religious media network in the world.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Derekap
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It would surely have been cheaper and less controversial if the Republicans had invited a local priest from Tampa to attend and lead the members in prayer?
Derekap
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