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The Ethics of the Market Place; How can we engage in Ethical shopping/banking
Topic Started: Sunday, 12. August 2012, 06:59 (287 Views)
James
James
A lot of the stuff is not of great quality and does not last long, so can be a false economy in the long run.
The turnover is quite fast.
However, I also cannot make a moral judgement where every penny counts and , no doubt, many with jobs, albeit slave labour are better than hundreds around them with nothing
Staff on the retail side in other countries get more money, obviously.
I just hope things will change from within as usually happens eventually when people are exploited..

Not all inexpensive items are from sweat shops and one can find many stores dealing with brand names, surplus stock, own store block purchases and all sorts of tools , diy goods and half price offers etc. which are about if one is prepared to shop around.
Butchers shops closing time deals and items nearing "use by " date are there.
I have no qualms about buying these.
Also buying something I know I will need later on and may not get it at that price then.

The clothing, I am wary about as it seems a false economy to me.
Hard up ? You possibly will do much better in a charity shop outlet for some quality brands , also if you shop around.
You see all sorts of people in these shops nowadays - but they can drive the prices up through demand.

So, in most cases the ethics of inexpensive goods is not a great moral dilemma for me.

James
Edited by James, Monday, 13. August 2012, 23:39.
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paul

Surely the choice is market forces or socialism. We have witnessed the result of a communist soviet union and are now seeing the imergence of market forces and all of the problems of corruption etc that goes with it.
Corruption exists just as much in socialist states (the recent Chinese politician scandal).
Christ said that we would always have the poor. As christians it is our moral responsibility to help them as and how we best can. If it means wearing clothing made is sweat shops so be it. Hopefully, in time their society/government will change matters as their economy improves.

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Rose of York
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paul
Thursday, 16. August 2012, 19:32
If it means wearing clothing made is sweat shops so be it. Hopefully, in time their society/government will change matters as their economy improves.

That could happen. The textile workers in this country worked in sweatshops and lived in hovels in the early twentieth century. Their descendants doing similar work now own cars, have central heating, good food, adequate clothing. It is possible other countries will follow a similar pattern of improvement. A person who feels that by buying imported clothes they will help the sweat shop worker have at least some wage however small could, if their conscience dictates they should have been charged more, make a donation to an appropriate charity.
Keep the Faith!

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Penfold
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Rose of York
Thursday, 16. August 2012, 22:00
The textile workers in this country worked in sweatshops and lived in hovels in the early twentieth century. Their descendants doing similar work now own cars, have central heating, good food, adequate clothing. It is possible other countries will follow a similar pattern of improvement. A person who feels that by buying imported clothes they will help the sweat shop worker have at least some wage however small could, if their conscience dictates they should have been charged more, make a donation to an appropriate charity.
How sad an indictment of the workers and dedicated union men and women of the past. That in the end they were only interested in themselves and had no moral principles or higher ideals for justice and respect for workers rights. In the end were they just NIMBYS well if that is so they paid a high price because now the owners have moved their factories to where the cheap labour is and when their economies evolve the owners will relocate the factories again. As consumers we have a moral responsibility for the goods we buy and the conditions of those who produce them.
If we do not by the cheap goods from abroad then perhaps others will suffer because they will have no money or perhaps through the UN we apply pressure for a universal minimum standard of the conditions a worker should expect.
Nothing is simple but alas to many never even ask the questions we just accept that it is not our problem, its to bad that others live in appalling conditions and work in sweat shops so that we can afford our luxuries, our replica sports tops etc etc...
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Rose of York
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Penfold
Friday, 17. August 2012, 00:59
Rose of York
Thursday, 16. August 2012, 22:00
The textile workers in this country worked in sweatshops and lived in hovels in the early twentieth century. Their descendants doing similar work now own cars, have central heating, good food, adequate clothing. It is possible other countries will follow a similar pattern of improvement. A person who feels that by buying imported clothes they will help the sweat shop worker have at least some wage however small could, if their conscience dictates they should have been charged more, make a donation to an appropriate charity.
How sad an indictment of the workers and dedicated union men and women of the past. That in the end they were only interested in themselves and had no moral principles or higher ideals for justice and respect for workers rights. In the end were they just NIMBYS well if that is so they paid a high price because now the owners have moved their factories to where the cheap labour is and when their economies evolve the owners will relocate the factories again. As consumers we have a moral responsibility for the goods we buy and the conditions of those who produce them.
Penfold I hope I did not give the impression I think the union leaders and the workers of the past were NIMBYS. Most of my classmates in infant and junior schools lived in one up one down houses with no hot water system, indoor toilet or bathroom. Some had to share an outside toilet with neighbours. There were streets with no proper surfacing or drainage, and rats a-plenty. It gives me great pleasure to know that those same people are now living their retirement in decent conditions, largely thanks to the efforts of the trade unions. My uncle was a trade union official, he based his principles on the social encyclicals.

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If we do not by the cheap goods from abroad then perhaps others will suffer because they will have no money or perhaps through the UN we apply pressure for a universal minimum standard of the conditions a worker should expect.
Nothing is simple but alas to many never even ask the questions we just accept that it is not our problem, its to bad that others live in appalling conditions and work in sweat shops so that we can afford our luxuries, our replica sports tops etc etc...

In the early eighties I ran a stall at a parish Christmas bazaar, the goods were chocolates made in Poland. At the time the people in Poland were queuing for hours just to buy bread. Their wages were dreadful. Some parishioners told me I should not be offering Polish goods for sale, so I told them, by purchasing they might help a Polish person get at least some wage and be able to get some food for the family and that was obviously better than starvation.
Keep the Faith!

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Penfold
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A small wage is better than no wage, that is undeniable but is it just to support a company that increases its profits by reducing labour costs by transferring labour costs to another country.
It is not a simple equation. In the 80s the boycotting of South Africa was in full swing, some argued that it had a minimum impact on the people in power in South Africa and others insisted it only harmed the ones we were trying to help because the reduction in demand for the product led to unemployment. Awareness of the injustice of apartheid was raised by the boycott and the campaign did contribute to the change of policy.
Tradecraft has done much to raise awareness of ethical trading. I think that the best we can do is try to purchase from companies who are trying to ensure a fair wage is paid to their workers, and that the workers conditions are such that they are not asked to take risks that Unions in this country have campaigned to abolish here. Simple things like ensuring safety guards, minimum lighting, adequate space and above all the abolition of child labour. It saddens, no angers me that conditions of work and abuse of children that were highlighted by Dickens and Charles Kingsley are now forgotten or worse dismissed because the children suffering are foreign and that these children should be grateful that they have been paid anything. Are we really so shallow that we are content to live as a Victorian on the back of other peoples suffering. We mean well and have good intentions but, as Saint Bernard of Clairvaux said "Hell is full of good intentions or desires."
We mean well but good intentions are not enough, action is required but what action, how do we trade fairly. I was once a believer in the co-op as a movement that would ensure fair trade in the UK but today it is more and more just another supermarket, Trade craft do not always get it right but they are a useful source of information and advice as is CAFOD and SCIAF and TROCAIRE
Not all are in a position to be able to choose and the inexpensive option is the only option available to them but for those of us who can make a choice we do need to think carefully about how we operate in the market place.
OSB outlined some basic principles and for all who have tried to do the right thing with the best information available at the time we can take some comfort from point 7,
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In many cases there are no easy answers
Alas some do not even ask the question.
Edited by Penfold, Friday, 17. August 2012, 08:12.
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