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Catholicism and Christian denominations - what's the difference?
Topic Started: Sunday, 1. July 2012, 22:35 (1,063 Views)
Penfold
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pete
Tuesday, 3. July 2012, 01:04
Quote:
 
Anne-Marie
You shouldn't need me to regurgitate the many things that have shamed the Church in recent years - or those which have shamed it in the past, such as those which caused the Reformation.

Sorry Anne-Marie, true we the Catholic Church are not without sin, from the very beginning of the Church, Jesus chose Judas as his very own disciple and see what Judas did?. He also chose Peter as the head of the Church, and Peter denied Christ three times. We are all individuals who make up the Church and we are all sinners which includes the Pope, his bishops, you and me. We might be horrified by what has been happening in the Church by certain members of our flock but please don’t degrade us all, rather you pray for the whole of the clergy instead of painting them all evil. We are blessed with a greater majority of Holy clergy, yet these good religious have had their priestly vocations tarnished by the evils of a very small minority. My wife and I pray for good holy priests on a daily basis and I consider it the duty of every Christian to Pray, Pray, Pray for priests instead of condemning them. Only by praying for holy priests will your prayers be answered.
Regarding the Reformation, it would seem that the Church martyrs who died for their faith were not saints after all according to your post. Perhaps St Henry, St Edward and St Elizabeth would get your vote, on the grounds that they persecuted the same Church which is still being persecuted today.
Thank you, it was good to awake and read such a refreshing post.
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Anne-Marie

pete
Tuesday, 3. July 2012, 01:04
Sorry Anne-Marie, true we the Catholic Church are not without sin,
We are all individuals who make up the Church and we are all sinners
We might be horrified by what has been happening in the Church by certain members of our flock but please don’t degrade us all
I didn't degrade anyone, despite my surprise at those who have approved your statement.
Since your response has been so obtuse, I obviously need to point out that my post was
in explanation about Catholicism v. other churches,
many of which arose as a direct result of our Church getting things terribly wrong: I won't condemn other churches for refusing to accept that which we did wrong.
And I did NOT regurgitate examples of what those things were.
I will not dismiss or condemn other churches which came into existence for very good and right reasons, however much circumstances may (or may not) have changed since.
pete
 
We are blessed with a greater majority of Holy clergy
Indeed we are.
pete
 
Regarding the Reformation, it would seem that the Church martyrs who died for their faith were not saints after all according to your post.
That they died for a Church which may (or may not) have been worthy of their sacrifice is a digression I prefer not to take - the fact our own Church then found it necessary to hold a Counter-Reformation might appear to suggest we knew we were in the wrong after all... which does indeed raise some VERY uncomfortable questions for us all!
pete
 
Perhaps St Henry, St Edward and St Elizabeth would get your vote, on the grounds that they persecuted the same Church which is still being persecuted today.
I prefer not to debate at such a silly level, whoever may chose to join you there.
Anne-Marie
FIAT VOLUNTAS DEI
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Gerard

Pete,

I see you refer to the clergy as holy clergy, and holy priests.
Are the laity holy?

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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pete

I can only speak for myself Gerry, I do try to be holy, and unfortunately I can’t always keep it up. I have to work hard at it, having a devoted wife is a great advantage as we pray and practice our faith together. Most of our friends are from our church community and I see holiness and goodness in most of them. The way that some have described our beloved Church on this site, I’ve been spared of not experiencing any of this.
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Rose of York
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Pete you have told us what diocese you are in, told us so much about your last parish priest and your current one. It is obvious what county you live in. It is fact that two priests of a religious order, in your area, were sent to prison.

Most of our members have condemned the actions of individuals, not of the Church. No person is the Church.

I do not think it is possible for any of us to know which people, among our friends, neighbours, priests, work colleagues and fellow parishioners are holy. We can see outward signs, and have conversations with them. We do not see into their hearts or souls. If I were free to attend daily Mass and hold prayer meetings in my house, and if I showed all the outward signs, I could have the reputation of being holy, but nobody would really know whether I was genuine.
Keep the Faith!

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tomais

These last few weeks our TVs have been full screened of true believers.An anniversary being celebrated.
I could not tell any of any difference-apart from prejudices of course
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Rose of York
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tomais confusing anniversaries with footie religion. See news in his country's newspapers.

;)
Keep the Faith!

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Derekap
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At least we shall not see scores like: Celtic 1 Rangers 1 Fans arrested 23 Fans injured 4.
Derekap
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Eileenanne

When did you last see such a report Derekap? Arrests at Old Firm games are few, and mostly for intemperate / inappropriate language.

Eileenanne
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Eileenanne

tomais
Wednesday, 4. July 2012, 14:22
These last few weeks our TVs have been full screened of true believers.An anniversary being celebrated.
I could not tell any of any difference-apart from prejudices of course
I thought he was referring to the Jubilee. I can't see any reference to football in Tomais's post.

Eileenanne
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pete

Quote:
 
Anne-marie
Some? Yes, possibly some. Though even some of them may look at the Church and ask themselves, 'If God is in the Eucharist, why is He so obviously absent in the Church?'

God is certainly not absent in the Church, He abides in the Tabernacle day and night if you care to seek him.
Quote:
 
Anne-Marie
There are specific bits of teaching some do not accept - specifically this last weekend (for one devout parishioner), the refusal to allow women priests Some who know Scripture well, see nothing defining or limiting the priesthood - yet the pope insists he doesn't have the power to authorise women priests... Doesn't HAVE the power or doesn't WANT the power???

What would be your answer Anne-Marie? A referendum amongst the laity? The Anglican Church did exactly this causing a major split. Thank God we have a Pope in charge that has a final say on the matter, whatever his pronouncement is we should never reject his conclusion or authority. The Holy Father is answerable to God alone for any decisions he sees fit to make and it’s not for the likes of you and me to contradict his authority. If you disagree so strongly about it, you are free to jump overboard and join the C of E or one of their 33,000 breakaway so called Christian religions who cater for all tastes.
I for one love my Church, I believe in the Holy Catholic Church its part of the Creed which is older than the bible and one of my daily prayers. Christ instituted one Church not Churches, giving authority to Peter, He also said that He would remain in His Church throughout time. He has kept his promise, and if he spares me this night, we will be united as one in the Eucharist this very morning. Without our Priests we would have no Eucharist, no Holy Mass and no Church. Which brings me back to the subject matter Catholicism and Christian denominations - what's the difference?
The Holy Mass
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Rose of York
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pete
Thursday, 5. July 2012, 00:49
Which brings me back to the subject matter Catholicism and Christian denominations - what's the difference?
The Holy Mass
Spot on, Pete. I cannot bear to hear rubbish about all Churches being the same. Any group of people can get together anywhere to pray. Some are little groups meeting in houses, some of them expand and become Christian communities, and grow to the point where they have large churches. If I were to join one of those there would be prayers and hymns but no Mass, and other things, for example sacramental forgiveness of sins, would not be available.
Keep the Faith!

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tomais

Elizabeth the First as on sychophantic TV. That annointed person.
Football? Even school games have been corrupted.
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Gerard

pete
Thursday, 5. July 2012, 00:49
He also said that He would remain in His Church throughout time. He has kept his promise, and if he spares me this night, we will be united as one in the Eucharist this very morning. Without our Priests we would have no Eucharist, no Holy Mass and no Church.
Pete,

The other christian denominations are part of His church and He remains in them.

You are quite wrong about there being no church without priests. Among the reasons I am so disillusioned with the institution is that it encourages idolisation of priests (idolatry?). The catholic church can exist quite happily without priests. Any laity can baptise and so the church can continue. There are examples in history of isolated catholic communities doing exactly this for hundreds of years. And in other places communities routinely go years and years without a visit from a priest.

And the pope does not have the kind of authority you suggest. Though popes and others may encourage such beliefs.But actually pope Benedict himself has said that we may sometimes be duty bound in concience to disobey a pope. An example I might suggest would be if a pope ordered another military crusade.

Gerry
Edited by Gerard, Thursday, 5. July 2012, 11:04.
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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pete

Quote:
 
Gerry:- You are quite wrong about there being no church without priests. Among the reasons I am so disillusioned with the institution is that it encourages idolisation of priests (idolatry?). The catholic church can exist quite happily without priests. Any laity can baptise and so the church can continue

The Church cannot exist without priests, it’s like saying a general hospital can operate without doctors and nurses. True the laity can baptise but only in an emergency. The laity cannot offer the sacrifice of the Mass, nether can the laity hear confessions. If you are disillusioned with the institution which I’m so proud to belong to, this is your problem Gerry. I would suggest you find yourself a good confessor, and the institution which you refer too is full of them. I would very much like you to meet my priest, he is not idolised but loved and respected by all his flock, even though he can be a bit forgetful at times he remains a treasure to us all.
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