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| Catholicism and Christian denominations - what's the difference? | |
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| Topic Started: Sunday, 1. July 2012, 22:35 (1,059 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Sunday, 1. July 2012, 22:35 Post #1 |
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In recent years I have come across Catholics who say one religion is as good as another, provided it is Christian. If that were so one might as well go to the church that is nearest, or that suits ones taste, the nice architecture, the music, the clergyman, the community. To me, the big difference is about Jesus having founded one Church, and only one, the others having founded by men and women who set up denominations that have teachings that were in agreement with the personal beliefs of the founders. Would any members care to join in a discussion about this? |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Home in Rome | Sunday, 1. July 2012, 23:37 Post #2 |
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As someone who has recently changed church allegiance, I would say my biggest attraction of the Catholic Church, and indeed its unique strength, is that it is the continuation of and the living heir to the Apostolic Church founded by Christ through the Petrine Office. The Church of England, and the wider Anglican Communion, claims its apostolicity and catholicity through its link to the pre-Reformation church, in spite of the upheavals and rupture in the 16th and 17th century, stressing that the essentials of the faith and order have been preserved. You can dispute this claim, and the Bull of Leo XIII has declared Anglican orders to be null and void, but the time doesn't stand still and today there is much greater appreciation of the life of grace that exists among separated brethren, which calls for even greater endeavour towards Christian unity. Other Protestant communities base their authenticity to the word of Scripture. If other Christians through common baptism share to a lesser or greater degree in the fullness of faith and sacramental assurance that is to be found in the Catholic Church, then we must pray even harder that one day we are fully united in faith and love under one Shepherd, Jesus Christ. On a personal level, I agree for some people, doctrine plays a far smaller role than things like friendliness, warmth of fellowship, style of worship, personality of the clergy or ministers and attractiveness of church buildings. To an extent that doctrine plays a part in all these things is a point worth making, but if we are to attract greater number of people to the Catholic faith in New Evangelisation, then these other things do have a part to play. Are we a welcoming church or are we cliquey? Do visitors get a friendly smile and hello from regulars? Is our post-Mass hospitality warm and friendly? Do we make it easy for those not familiar with Catholic liturgy to follow our services? Do we have attractively displayed leaflets and posters to help those who wish to explore our faith? Above all, do we exude the spirit of love and joy that were so characteristic of early Christians ('See, how much they love one another!') These and other questions will help to make us fitter for mission and give us greater zeal for souls and extension of the Kingdom. |
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| pete | Monday, 2. July 2012, 00:27 Post #3 |
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The reason some Catholics say such things is because they do not believe in the True Presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. Sadly a great number of practicing Catholics if the truth be known don’t believe either, so I can understand why this thread was started. If you believe in the Eucharist then you know making this comparison is fruitless; unless you are an High Anglican who think the same as Catholics do. |
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| Anne-Marie | Monday, 2. July 2012, 08:19 Post #4 |
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Some? Yes, possibly some. Though even some of them may look at the Church and ask themselves, 'If God is in the Eucharist, why is He so obviously absent in the Church?' A great many Catholics look at the Church (its buildings and its people) and loathe what they see, which doesn't always appear to have anything whatever to do with God - except in name. It is not God they reject - it is the institution and people they can't stomach. You shouldn't need me to regurgitate the many things that have shamed the Church in recent years - or those which have shamed it in the past, such as those which caused the Reformation. There are specific bits of teaching some do not accept - specifically this last weekend (for one devout parishioner), the refusal to allow women priests. Some who know Scripture well, see nothing defining or limiting the priesthood - yet the pope insists he doesn't have the power to authorise women priests... Doesn't HAVE the power or doesn't WANT the power??? We should open our eyes and look around our own communities: Britain is a Christian country, full of Christians. It is US they can't stand, not God! Wasn't it Ghandi who said, "There's nothing wrong with Christianity except the Christians!" |
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Anne-Marie FIAT VOLUNTAS DEI | |
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| Gerard | Monday, 2. July 2012, 09:11 Post #5 |
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I agree with what Anne Marie says above - and add that at the moment those who loath the institution include me. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Deleted User | Monday, 2. July 2012, 09:13 Post #6 |
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For me, and for at least some other Catholics, there is an unease about the claim that Our Lord founded our Church and that all other denominations are merely human inventions. In Scripture , Jesus makes no mention of Catholicism nor he does he refer to anything that resembles Mass as we know it in any form. Human beings have taken the Last Supper and have built up the Catholic liturgy from that just as other human beings have developed other forms of worship for other denominations. Similarly with the Sacraments , sainthood and so on. As for Apostolic succession, I can never see what the big deal is though, as Home in Rome testifies, it is a powerful argument for many. Even here, though, I am not sure we have the real deal. The evidence seems sketchy to me and in any case the Orthodox tradition regards itself as the church with the genuine apostolic succession and view us as schismatic. I went to a funeral in Chester last week. The Church of England vicar who took the service was clearly a leader of his community, well-loved and while comforting the bereaved spoke up clearly, effectively, for the Christian faith and message. He bore true witness and I cannot believe that his calling is any less valid than a Catholic priest's. The big accusation hurled around these days is that of relativism. But I cannot help feeling Our Lord is furiously impatient with all our wrangling over obscure doctrinal points and symbolism. John |
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| Mrs.Pogle | Monday, 2. July 2012, 09:55 Post #7 |
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from the woods
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I agree with Anne-Marie's post, and also with John...
For a number of reasons encompassing many things that both Anne-Marie and John have cited, plus some very personal ones of my own, I have left the Catholic Church and now regard myself as Anglican, the Church into which I was baptised as a baby. I have found what I always felt was "missing" in the RC Church, and have been warmly enveloped into a community of faith which feels more like family. At a time of personal tragedy the Catholic Church has given me nothing, whereas the Anglican Church ~ Vicar, Curate and fellow Christians ~ have gone the extra mile and beyond. Theologically, I have rejected much of what I have been taught prior to/since conversion. There are too many things which I cannot square up with Scripture or my conscience, not to mention issues of authority, inequality and social issues within the Church, as I perceive them. I am not certain, and haven't been for some months, whether I believe in the "Real Presence" ~ but I am 100% certain that I experience the real presence of Jesus everyday of my life, as His Spirit lives within me. Perhaps, as a convert, it is easier for me to leave the Church than it would be for a cradle Catholic, I don't know. All I know is that I have made the right decision and am looking forward to doing the CofE Foundations for Ministry course next year. Who knows where that might lead me? Oh, and I am at peace in my faith, and most definitely Christian! :) Sorry to just jump in after such a long absence. I probably won't be participating much, if at all. There is a lot on here which I would find belittling to my chosen Church/faith and I wouldn't find helpful. But there are lovely people on here too, and I pray that God will bless each and every one of you. Oh, and Gerry ~ pax! We crossed swords a lot in the past, but I can see now just how much sense you made of things xx |
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| paul | Monday, 2. July 2012, 12:53 Post #8 |
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I agree with Pete. The eucharist was a gift from Jesus, something to be grateful for as is the other gift of scripture. Jesus would not have made his comments unless he wanted us to "do this in memory of me" It is a wonderful experience for me to receive his body and blood at mass and know that for a split second I can be at one with him because of his gift. I too have little time for liturgy, it can be tiresome and longwinded. However, things like that do not detract me from my faith. As regards the Orthodox church, I believe one of the stumbling blocks to unity is that they do not believe that the Holy Spirit emanates from the son, only the Father. Dominus vobiscum |
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| Gerard | Monday, 2. July 2012, 12:58 Post #9 |
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Hi Mrs P. Good to hear from you again. That seems to be a feature of this forum. We leave and come back again. Me included. I think that is avery good sign. Pax returned. We only disagreed on ideas. Yours seemed to me rather fixed and seem to have become rather less rigid from your post above? Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Monday, 2. July 2012, 13:02 Post #10 |
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Thats just a symptom of their real issue which is the arrogance and tyrany of the papacy |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Monday, 2. July 2012, 14:04 Post #11 |
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That is the main reason I stay.
I see that differently. They broke away - it was a continuation at least in part.
Again I would say that they were more in keeping with Christ's teaching as they saw it. And do not forget this usually was prompted because of failings on our part. Another reason I stay is because of the benefits of continuity through the ages which means I (we) benefit from the meditations/revelations/insights/writings of catholics through 2000 years.
And I also think they are part of this one church. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| pat | Monday, 2. July 2012, 18:21 Post #12 |
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Sorry, adding nothing to this topic, but just wanted to say hi to Mrs Pogle!
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| Derekap | Monday, 2. July 2012, 21:32 Post #13 |
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I will start with an old story. A new-arrival is being showing around Heaven by St Peter. They came to a wall. Surprised the newcomer asked St Peter why there is a wall. St Peter replied that beyond the wall are the Catholics who think they are the only people who come to Heaven. I say there are no Catholics in Heaven - please think before disagreeing I don't think the dispute about God the Son and God The Holy Spirit, which was part of the breakaway of the now Orthodox Churches from the Pope is of any importance - we shall eventually know anyway if we are interested. One other point was the strong wish for the Head of The Church to be in Constantinople (Istanbul) instead of Rome. Whilst Catholics should by our teaching, discussing, explaining and/or example try to attract others, we should remember thousands have been taught, in schools, by their parents or even by advertisements (sometimes with offers of tea and cakes) to follow other Christian communities. If they do so conscienciously and are not attracted by Catholics or its teachings and practices I am certain God will not condemn them. |
| Derekap | |
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| pete | Tuesday, 3. July 2012, 01:04 Post #14 |
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Sorry Anne-Marie, true we the Catholic Church are not without sin, from the very beginning of the Church, Jesus chose Judas as his very own disciple and see what Judas did?. He also chose Peter as the head of the Church, and Peter denied Christ three times. We are all individuals who make up the Church and we are all sinners which includes the Pope, his bishops, you and me. We might be horrified by what has been happening in the Church by certain members of our flock but please don’t degrade us all, rather you pray for the whole of the clergy instead of painting them all evil. We are blessed with a greater majority of Holy clergy, yet these good religious have had their priestly vocations tarnished by the evils of a very small minority. My wife and I pray for good holy priests on a daily basis and I consider it the duty of every Christian to Pray, Pray, Pray for priests instead of condemning them. Only by praying for holy priests will your prayers be answered. Regarding the Reformation, it would seem that the Church martyrs who died for their faith were not saints after all according to your post. Perhaps St Henry, St Edward and St Elizabeth would get your vote, on the grounds that they persecuted the same Church which is still being persecuted today. |
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| Rose of York | Tuesday, 3. July 2012, 01:40 Post #15 |
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We don't need anybody to regurgitate the sins of some in the Church. We know about them. The sins of men should not affect our spiritual life or beliefs. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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8:38 PM Jul 11