Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit!
You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language.
If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Priesthood of the Future
Topic Started: Thursday, 21. June 2012, 09:17 (1,037 Views)
Penfold
Member Avatar

John Sweeney
Friday, 22. June 2012, 19:47
Why can't they be ordained as Ordinariate priests if married status is a barrier?

John
Because they are not in the Ordinariate which is a special dispensation established for former Anglicans.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Penfold
Member Avatar

John Sweeney
Friday, 22. June 2012, 19:47
What is the major difference that prevents them becoming priests?
They are not prevented from becoming priests if they are unmarried. If a man has a vocation to the diaconate then that is wonderful. Deacons are not "Semi-Priests" or "Nearly Priests" they are Deacons and they have a valuable ministry in their own right.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Penfold
Member Avatar



http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_p-vi_motu-proprio_19670618_sacrum-diaconatus_en.html


http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_24061967_sacerdotalis_en.html


http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19651207_presbyterorum-ordinis_en.html
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Sorry Penfold I find these replies disappointing. I would just like the position as you see it spelled out in clear rather than cryptic language.

John
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Angus Toanimo
Friday, 22. June 2012, 19:22
Public opinion and Catholic opinion of the Priesthood needs to change - priests need to change. All this post-V2 familiarism between clergy and laity has led where? Is Fr Robert McGuire my parish priest - or is he Fr Bob, or just Bob, my mate? The lay ministries of EMHC and others have not helped. Altar girls in place of Altar boys -
How come attendance at Mass in the Extraordinary Form is so low, if it is so superior?
Quote:
 
boys no longer wanting to be seen "on the altar" as it's "cissyish" because it's "for girls". The altar service is no longer a "recruiting ground" for the priesthood.
Boys still join Scouts, there are girls in the same troops. Anyway any boy, who in this day and age, takes that attitude to girls needs a good talking to.
Quote:
 
And what is there, looking at the Catholic Church, to attract young men to consider a vocation to the Priesthood today? Where are these families so deep in the faith that the parents offer their sons and daughters to the service of the Church? Do they even exist anymore?
The privilege of offering Mass and administering the Sacraments of Annointing and Reconciliation, and giving pastoral care to all who need it.
Quote:
 
Abolish (once again) the permanent diaconate and make the priesthood something that every young Catholic male would at least think about in a positive light. Get rid of the EMHCs and God knows what else lay ministries there are, and reclaim your parishes and the Holy Mass. "Active participation" does not mean lay people in the sanctuary, it does not mean lay ministries. Distribute Holy Communion just as your ancestors did, lead the people in prayer and the Holy Sacrifice to the Most High. Get that distinction and professional line drawn once again and be their priest.
Professional? I think priesthood is purely vocational.
Quote:
 
Get back to hellfire and brimstone, give the laity sermons like priests used to - warn them of the dangers of believing that Hell and Satan no longer exists. Re-educate them on Sin. Give them the raw, unsugared Catholic Faith.
How long is it since you attended Mass in the Ordinary Form? You seem very familiar with the manner in which it is offered nowadays.
Quote:
 
I once knew a priest who loved to gas on about his trip here or there or who he saw in the supermarket during the week. Hello???? Priest???? Sermon????
I could name a priest who said not a single Jew was gassed to death. We cannot judge all priests by that, any more than we can judge all by the one who loved to gas on about his trip here or there or who he saw in the supermarket during the week. [/quote]

SSPX Great Britain have 11 priests, of whom two are from USA, one from New Zealand and three from mainland Europe. They are scheduled to offer 20 Masses in Great Britain next week. I stick to my promise never to make rude remarks about any approved liturgy, but these figures do raise questions. If so called Traditional Catholicism is so terribly terribly superior, it would be more successful at increasing vocations and Mass attendance.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Penfold
Member Avatar

John Sweeney
Friday, 22. June 2012, 21:50
Sorry Penfold I find these replies disappointing. I would just like the position as you see it spelled out in clear rather than cryptic language.

John
:giveup:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Penfold
Member Avatar

Rose of York
Friday, 22. June 2012, 22:00

Quote:
 
Abolish (once again) the permanent diaconate and make the priesthood something that every young Catholic male would at least think about in a positive light. Get rid of the EMHCs and God knows what else lay ministries there are, and reclaim your parishes and the Holy Mass. "Active participation" does not mean lay people in the sanctuary, it does not mean lay ministries. Distribute Holy Communion just as your ancestors did, lead the people in prayer and the Holy Sacrifice to the Most High. Get that distinction and professional line drawn once again and be their priest.
Professional? I think priesthood is purely vocational.
:nw: :thanks: :nw:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Angus Toanimo
Member Avatar
Administrator
Rose of York
Friday, 22. June 2012, 22:00
Angus Toanimo
Friday, 22. June 2012, 19:22
Public opinion and Catholic opinion of the Priesthood needs to change - priests need to change. All this post-V2 familiarism between clergy and laity has led where? Is Fr Robert McGuire my parish priest - or is he Fr Bob, or just Bob, my mate? The lay ministries of EMHC and others have not helped. Altar girls in place of Altar boys -
How come attendance at Mass in the Extraordinary Form is so low, if it is so superior?
Quote:
 
boys no longer wanting to be seen "on the altar" as it's "cissyish" because it's "for girls". The altar service is no longer a "recruiting ground" for the priesthood.
Boys still join Scouts, there are girls in the same troops. Anyway any boy, who in this day and age, takes that attitude to girls needs a good talking to.
Quote:
 
And what is there, looking at the Catholic Church, to attract young men to consider a vocation to the Priesthood today? Where are these families so deep in the faith that the parents offer their sons and daughters to the service of the Church? Do they even exist anymore?
The privilege of offering Mass and administering the Sacraments of Annointing and Reconciliation, and giving pastoral care to all who need it.
Quote:
 
Abolish (once again) the permanent diaconate and make the priesthood something that every young Catholic male would at least think about in a positive light. Get rid of the EMHCs and God knows what else lay ministries there are, and reclaim your parishes and the Holy Mass. "Active participation" does not mean lay people in the sanctuary, it does not mean lay ministries. Distribute Holy Communion just as your ancestors did, lead the people in prayer and the Holy Sacrifice to the Most High. Get that distinction and professional line drawn once again and be their priest.
Professional? I think priesthood is purely vocational.
Quote:
 
Get back to hellfire and brimstone, give the laity sermons like priests used to - warn them of the dangers of believing that Hell and Satan no longer exists. Re-educate them on Sin. Give them the raw, unsugared Catholic Faith.
How long is it since you attended Mass in the Ordinary Form? You seem very familiar with the manner in which it is offered nowadays.
Quote:
 
I once knew a priest who loved to gas on about his trip here or there or who he saw in the supermarket during the week. Hello???? Priest???? Sermon????
I could name a priest who said not a single Jew was gassed to death. We cannot judge all priests by that, any more than we can judge all by the one who loved to gas on about his trip here or there or who he saw in the supermarket during the week.

SSPX Great Britain have 11 priests, of whom two are from USA, one from New Zealand and three from mainland Europe. They are scheduled to offer 20 Masses in Great Britain next week. I stick to my promise never to make rude remarks about any approved liturgy, but these figures do raise questions. If so called Traditional Catholicism is so terribly terribly superior, it would be more successful at increasing vocations and Mass attendance.
Forever on the defensive of the New Mass, aren't you? Who mentioned anything about the two Forms? Who mentioned anything about the SSPX? Can you not have the Ordinary Form without all the lay ministries and altar girls? Is it impossible? Is it impossible for New Mass attenders to show respect to their priest? Is it impossible for parish priests to be called Fr Surname and is it horribly backward of them if they insist parishioners do call them as such? Why can't you just read my post as being from a Catholic posting his viewpoint on things rather than picking at what isn't there? Oh, and teaching is a vocation. You don't see teachers allowing children to call them by their christian names and I and other parents don't refer to my boy's teacher as "Stephanie" but "Mrs Marshall". The teacher can carry out her vocation without resorting to being on matey terms with parents, why can't priests and parishioners do the same?
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Emee
Member Avatar

I would prefer the Church to get closer back to its Biblical roots.

And St Paul never expected people to refer to him as Bishop "Of Tarsus". No he always referred to himself as: "Paul of Tarsus". I think as Penfold says it should be up to the individual Priest to state how he prefers to be called.

Also on the subject of altar girls being a barrier to recruiting boys for the Priesthood: of 4 altar boys I knew in my youth, when there were only boys on the altar: one is an atheist, one dropped out very quickly and is now a Muslim, one is dead (I think he was an alcoholic) and only one went on to become a Priest. So that's hmmm, let me see, one out of four.

Such halcyon days Angus...

No I don't think altar girls are the problem or barrier here.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Emee, as it happens, I agree with you . But if I didn't I would still salute you for a clear articulate post which makes your view clear in contast to those bewildering posts with huge chunks of quotes interspersed with one line comments which make the argument impossible to follow.

John
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Angus Toanimo
Friday, 22. June 2012, 22:07
Forever on the defensive of the New Mass, aren't you?
No, it needs no defence, but I do respond to posts I perceive to be running it down.

Quote:
 
Who mentioned anything about the two Forms? Who mentioned anything about the SSPX?
Lay readers and EMHCs are the norm as Mass in the Ordinary Form, but not the Extraordinary. I used SSPX as an example of a Society that offers Mass in the latter, because I have no information about Mass attendance or priest numbers in other Traditional Societies in Britain.
Quote:
 
Can you not have the Ordinary Form without all the lay ministries and altar girls? Is it impossible?
Yes but they are approved.
Quote:
 
Is it impossible for New Mass attenders to show respect to their priest? Is it impossible for parish priests to be called Fr Surname and is it horribly backward of them if they insist parishioners do call them as such?
I have only known one priest who wanted to be addressed solely by his Christian name. Yes it is possible to call a priest Fr (surname). It must be, I do it.
Quote:
 
Why can't you just read my post as being from a Catholic posting his viewpoint on things rather than picking at what isn't there?
I was discussing, not picking.
Quote:
 
Oh, and teaching is a vocation. You don't see teachers allowing children to call them by their christian names and I and other parents don't refer to my boy's teacher as "Stephanie" but "Mrs Marshall". The teacher can carry out her vocation without resorting to being on matey terms with parents, why can't priests and parishioners do the same?
Some teachers do want to be addressed by their Christian or other First names. I think that is wrong.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
If altar service was a harvest ground for vocations to the priesthood how come my church that had two pews of servers on each side of the sanctuary celebrated if they produced one seminarian in ten years? There must have been about twenty boys at 9.30 Mass, the same at 10.30 and a few less at 11.30. There would be a minimum of two at 8.00 am. If a quarter had been ordained, the parish would have ended up with a lot of spinsters!
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Angus Toanimo
Member Avatar
Administrator
Emee
Friday, 22. June 2012, 23:03
I would prefer the Church to get closer back to its Biblical roots.
In what way?

Quote:
 
And St Paul never expected people to refer to him as Bishop "Of Tarsus". No he always referred to himself as: "Paul of Tarsus". I think as Penfold says it should be up to the individual Priest to state how he prefers to be called.


One never refers to oneself by one's own title. It's bad form. An uncle used to make me giggle when he'd write a formal letter to someone - school perhaps or the local council, and at the bottom he'd use "Mr" then his name. It's not the done thing.
Quote:
 

Also on the subject of altar girls being a barrier to recruiting boys for the Priesthood: of 4 altar boys I knew in my youth, when there were only boys on the altar: one is an atheist, one dropped out very quickly and is now a Muslim, one is dead (I think he was an alcoholic) and only one went on to become a Priest. So that's hmmm, let me see, one out of four.


It's a fact that whilst there are many reasons for the decline in vocations to the priesthood, the two major reasons are the Permanent Diaconate and allowing female altar servers.

Quote:
 
Such halcyon days Angus...

No I don't think altar girls are the problem or barrier here.


Of course you don't, why would you?
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Angus Toanimo
Friday, 22. June 2012, 23:33
It's a fact that whilst there are many reasons for the decline in vocations to the priesthood, the two major reasons are the Permanent Diaconate and allowing female altar servers.
All the permanent deacons I have known were ordained to the diaconate way over the age of 40. When they had made their decision to marry they were not to know they would, years later, be invited to study for the diaconate.

I think it likely one reason for fall in vocations is the modern cultural lack of understanding of lifelong commitment. Divorce is common, marriage and secular careers are not viewed as necessarily permanent.

Mind you the Second Vatican Council is definitely responsible for the shortage of Methodist ministers. They should never have taken to praying in English.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OsullivanB

Angus
 
One never refers to oneself by one's own title.
Paul identifies himself as an Apostle in the first verse of: Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General Catholic Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply