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| Priesthood of the Future | |
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| Topic Started: Thursday, 21. June 2012, 09:17 (1,038 Views) | |
| Eileenanne | Thursday, 21. June 2012, 16:52 Post #16 |
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Actually, that is something I have thought about - the burial, not the haunting. I accept that, the way things are going, if I live an average lifespan I might not get a priest at my funeral. If that does happen, or if it happened for anyone whose funeral I was arranging, I would just as soon have a member of the family say a few words and have a requiem Mass whenever a priest was able to do it. Eileenanne |
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| Josephine | Thursday, 21. June 2012, 23:30 Post #17 |
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My eldest child, now 34 years of age, was baptised by a deacon. They are not such a very new phenomenon. I don't think I'll mind much who buries me but I would like a requiem. In fact, lots of requiem masses. I'll need a lot of praying for! Question is, who'll say the prayers for me? Who will pray the masses for my eternal soul? So now, I pray for "those who have no-one to pray for them" and I have masses said for them from time to time in the hope that, one day when I need it, some-one will do it for me. |
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| Deleted User | Friday, 22. June 2012, 09:13 Post #18 |
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I suppose I'm guilty as usual of missing the point about the special nature of the priesthood but it seems that the Apostolic succession and the laying on of hands is seen as very important by others. That being so, why don't our bishops simply have cermonies to lay hands on existing deacons and give them the powers to say Mass with full consecration powers? If the idea of married priests is still out for RC priests though ok for ordinariate priests then why don't we make clear the deacons are being ordained as Ordinariate priests though assigned to "ordinary" parishes? It may seem convoluted but that is the way we seem to like to do things and this step would create the first layer of a different type of priesthood as foreseen by young Ratzinger (what became of him by the way?) John |
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| paul | Friday, 22. June 2012, 16:58 Post #19 |
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I think Deacons can "hatch" and "despatch" but not "match"! I would think that would be quite enough considering that probably the majority are married and have family responsibilities as well as parish. The present Pope is very much an intellectual and his books are amazing, a joy to read. Ordination to the priesthood is a sacrament, I assume also ordination as a Deacon I really have little patience for priests who want to change the goalposts because they are finding it tough. Priests have 7 yrs or so to decide whether or not they have a vocation to the priesthood. Surely it is a mortal sin to break a vow?. |
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| Penfold | Friday, 22. June 2012, 17:00 Post #20 |
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For the same reason as a dentist does not get called upon to do neurosurgery or a neurosurgeon called to sort out a root canal. A deacon is an ordained minister full and complete with out any need for enhancements or embellishments he can carry all the duties that fall within the range of his vocation. A priest is called to a different, complimentary, ministry. What is required of a priest is different from that which is required of a permanent deacon. It should be noted that a permanent deacon is not free to marry, if they are already married their children grown and their wife agrees it is possible for them to enter the diaconate as a married man just as former Anglicans and priests from other Christian confessions are admitted to Holy Orders while married. If they are not already married then they are invited to remain celibate like the majority of Roman Catholic Priests. The thriving numbers heading for monastic life indicate that the problem of priesthood is not enforced chastity. The diocesan priest today is far more vulnerable and lonely than priests of even 20 years ago. It is not just that priests stepped off the pedestal post Vat II it is that people take delight in treading us into the ground and deny our vocations. We are just magicians to say mass and conduct celebrations at the beck and call of an increasingly ungrateful and greedy group of people who care nothing for us, if were not around who cares we'll have get the deacon or a EMHC and all to often they dismiss us to being unwelcome reminders of a model of church that was only ever existed in myth and the rose tinted lenses. The heart of Fr Joseph's lectures given in 1969 on his local radio station are that prior to Vatican II most people lived in the church as Adam and Eve lived in Paradise. Post Vat II we live in the reality, we have eaten of the tree of knowledge. For many the revelations and resulting changes were to much to bear and they either left or retreated into groups such as the SSPX. Well we are free, and that freedom comes with responsibilities. That is what is being discussed in the passage quoted by Mairtin. Edited by Penfold, Friday, 22. June 2012, 17:02.
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| Eileenanne | Friday, 22. June 2012, 18:19 Post #21 |
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I don't know what to say about that, Penfold, except that I definitely need to pray more for priests and to be more grateful for the fact that they have given their lives to our service and the service of God. Eileenanne |
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| Angus Toanimo | Friday, 22. June 2012, 18:21 Post #22 |
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I think he reverted to Catholicism....
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| paul | Friday, 22. June 2012, 18:50 Post #23 |
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please don't insult the Holy Father. |
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| Penfold | Friday, 22. June 2012, 18:52 Post #24 |
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Thanks Eileenanne |
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| Angus Toanimo | Friday, 22. June 2012, 19:22 Post #25 |
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Public opinion and Catholic opinion of the Priesthood needs to change - priests need to change. All this post-V2 familiarism between clergy and laity has led where? Is Fr Robert McGuire my parish priest - or is he Fr Bob, or just Bob, my mate? The lay ministries of EMHC and others have not helped. Altar girls in place of Altar boys - boys no longer wanting to be seen "on the altar" as it's "cissyish" because it's "for girls". The altar service is no longer a "recruiting ground" for the priesthood. And what is there, looking at the Catholic Church, to attract young men to consider a vocation to the Priesthood today? Where are these families so deep in the faith that the parents offer their sons and daughters to the service of the Church? Do they even exist anymore? If people are treading priests into the ground, Father, it is because they are being allowed to! Abolish (once again) the permanent diaconate and make the priesthood something that every young Catholic male would at least think about in a positive light. Get rid of the EMHCs and God knows what else lay ministries there are, and reclaim your parishes and the Holy Mass. "Active participation" does not mean lay people in the sanctuary, it does not mean lay ministries. Distribute Holy Communion just as your ancestors did, lead the people in prayer and the Holy Sacrifice to the Most High. Get that distinction and professional line drawn once again and be their priest. Get back to hellfire and brimstone, give the laity sermons like priests used to - warn them of the dangers of believing that Hell and Satan no longer exists. Re-educate them on Sin. Give them the raw, unsugared Catholic Faith. I once knew a priest who loved to gas on about his trip here or there or who he saw in the supermarket during the week. Hello???? Priest???? Sermon???? Anyway, just my thoughts. Meanwhile, my prayers for you and the priesthood. |
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| Angus Toanimo | Friday, 22. June 2012, 19:22 Post #26 |
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I'd be the last person on this forum to do that, Paul. |
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| OsullivanB | Friday, 22. June 2012, 19:25 Post #27 |
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But by no means the first! |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Deleted User | Friday, 22. June 2012, 19:47 Post #28 |
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I'm afraid I don't understand the bulk of your post Penfold. I see no evidence of people wishing to tread priests underfoot or to dismiss their calling . far from it. Nor do I see any evidence of people flocking to the monastic life , but rather continual stories of monasteries and convents closing. There is a feeling, I think, that the previous stifling clerical atmosphere in the Church has got to be changed. See reports of the Eucharistic Congress in Ireland for evidence of this. I was unaware of deacons until two men were ordained from our parish. I have been impressed by their service. What is the major difference that prevents them becoming priests? Why can't they be ordained as Ordinariate priests if married status is a barrier? John |
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| Penfold | Friday, 22. June 2012, 19:52 Post #29 |
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Thanks for the prayers, However priests needed to be taken off the pedestals most would happily have stepped off but things have gone too far. Priesthood needs to be restored to its proper place alongside the laity, and there is a role for deacons, permanent in particular, and bishops. As for what you call your local priest, as OSB would say, as long as it is polite, personally I find formality is often a veneer for insincerity and that is impolite, I would prefer a sincere informal "hi mate." |
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| tomais | Friday, 22. June 2012, 20:47 Post #30 |
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Unisex. |
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3:41 PM Jul 11