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| Getting To The Truth | |
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| Topic Started: Thursday, 21. June 2012, 08:56 (275 Views) | |
| Mairtin | Thursday, 21. June 2012, 08:56 Post #1 |
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I hope Gerry doesn’t mind me taking that point slightly out of context from another thread but it raises a general issue which I think warrants its own thread. Hans Küng and Richard Williamson have both dedicated their lives to Christ’s service, they both spent years in seminary, they know Church teaching inside out and are far more familiar with scripture than anyone on this forum with the possible exceptions of Penfold and Deacon Robert. Neither of them is a lone voice – Küng became one of the most highly regarded theologians in the Church and notwithstanding the removal of his teaching authority, he remains a priest in good standing and still has a large following; Williamson was regarded so highly by his peers that he was appointed bishop and despite the furore over his views in recent years, remains bishop and, like Küng, has a very strong following. If men with the intellect, training and religious dedication that these two have can end up poles apart on what Church teaching means and how it should be interpreted, what chance have we laity of getting it right? |
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| Eileenanne | Thursday, 21. June 2012, 09:10 Post #2 |
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Good question and the answer is precious little if we try to work it out for ourselves, so we stick with the Pope. Theologians do not have teaching authority and the assurance of guidance by the Holy Spirit, the Pope does. Eileenanne Edited by Eileenanne, Thursday, 21. June 2012, 09:10.
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| tomais | Thursday, 21. June 2012, 09:10 Post #3 |
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They are human beings; learning can induce an arrogance when disagreement appears. re D Hume and emotions. Think of all the diversities in beliefs-many / most begun by " intellectuals" Think of many postings here. |
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| Gerard | Thursday, 21. June 2012, 12:56 Post #4 |
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Might both men be right? Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Mairtin | Thursday, 21. June 2012, 13:02 Post #5 |
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That's my own thinking. from Mark 9: "39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is for us. 41* For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ, will by no means lose his reward." Both these men are "for Christ". |
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| Eileenanne | Thursday, 21. June 2012, 15:09 Post #6 |
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Only insofar as they are in harmony with the revealed Truth as taught by the Church Jesus founded.
Eileenanne Edited by Eileenanne, Thursday, 21. June 2012, 15:16.
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 21. June 2012, 16:02 Post #7 |
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| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Eileenanne | Thursday, 21. June 2012, 16:48 Post #8 |
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I wonder which of those Jesus actually said. Eileenanne |
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 21. June 2012, 16:51 Post #9 |
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When it comes to the Gospels, I think we're supposed to think it's all good. Anyhow, Mark is generally thought to be the first Gospel of the four canonical ones, and to be one of the major sources for Matthew and Luke. Some believe that Mark's source was Peter the Apostle. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Deleted User | Friday, 22. June 2012, 14:30 Post #10 |
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Deleted User
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Eileenanne, I know I have hammered this example to death now on several threads but I stuck with various Popes' teaching on Limbo all through school and adult life then all of a sudden along comes this Pope who has to all intents and purposes abolished this teaching . So there are no certainties in theology and Popes vary in their approach as much as do Fr Kung and Bishop Williamson. In reality, I don't think it is possible to get to one certain unshakeable truth in this field and we can only listen to the views of learned men and make up our own mind. To my way of thinking, God isn't really into theology anyway John |
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| Mairtin | Saturday, 23. June 2012, 08:44 Post #11 |
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Our Church does not teach that the Pope is in fallible in everything he decides or has the guidance of the Holy Spirit in everything he does, she actually states the opposite of that. |
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| Eileenanne | Saturday, 23. June 2012, 09:48 Post #12 |
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In matters of what is TRUTH the Pope is infallible. Faith and morals are his remit alone. Eileenanne |
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| Gerard | Saturday, 23. June 2012, 20:35 Post #13 |
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Balderdash. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Eileenanne | Saturday, 23. June 2012, 22:10 Post #14 |
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Catholic teaching. Eileenanne |
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| OsullivanB | Saturday, 23. June 2012, 22:18 Post #15 |
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Catholic teaching |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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3:40 PM Jul 11