| We hope you enjoy your visit! You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| "Towards an Assembly of the Irish Catholic Church"; Conference In Dublin | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Saturday, 5. May 2012, 14:08 (443 Views) | |
| Mairtin | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 14:08 Post #1 |
|
The Association of Catholic Priests have organised a conference in Dublin this Monday on the theme "Towards an Assembly of the Irish Catholic Church". I'm going to the conference though my feelings about it are somewhat mixed. My own position is more or less:
I'm basically going along to hear what is happening and if I get a chance in the discussions, to voice my underlying concerns. I would be interested in hearing the views and comments of other people here that I could take into account if I am given a chance to air my views. |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 14:27 Post #2 |
![]()
Administrator
|
I agree with all Mairtin's points and hope to make a more detailed reply later on. |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| valleyboy | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 14:36 Post #3 |
|
It's easy to see the hand of the devil in initiatives we don't like or which frighten us. Christians have to trust in God to guide us to the right answer without projecting our own fears onto the the process. My instinctive belief is the trials to which the church has been subject in recent times is urging it to transform and renew itself, and that laicisation is fundamental to that change. It's hard to disagree with point 2. Even if the Holy See emerge with the right answer to current challenges on every occasion, their public relations are nothing short of appalling, which in themselves turn people away. Entrenchment and reaction are not dialogue and in the end only cooperation will bring renewal and revitalisation. The answer to all dilemmas is prayer, and trust. |
| Liberal, ecumenical, universal and it's my church too. | |
![]() |
|
| Gerard | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 16:14 Post #4 |
|
Mairtin, I think it is very good that you are going to this conference. I also think you are very lucky. I thnk the ACP is the best chance we have for the catholic church today. I would like to have gone but (i) I thought it was just for members (and members were priests) and (ii) I am not Irish and so should leave it to the Irish. I am dismayed at the state and behaviour of our leadership and the structures and cultures of the institution. Ireland seems particularly broken and my hope, prayer and expectation is that out of this brokeness will come new ways of doing "catholic church". The ACP looks like a promising vehicle through which this might happen. I was concerned that it might be just as clerical as the rest of the institution but your attendance gives me hope, also, that it might not be. Clericalism was and is a big part of the problem. I have looked for reform movement to support but they tend to attract everyone with an issue and end up demanding every reform going - and so loose credibility. The ACP, I think, will not fall into that trap. I do not wrry about whether such a reform group might be the wrong thing. I am confidentit is the right thing. My confidence lies in the fact that these groups are asking that Vatican II be implemented rather than resisted. Since V2 was a full council I am confident that the Holy Spirit wants reform and renewal fit for the modern world. I assure you of my prayers for a Holy Spirit empowered, changed and renewed catholic church in Ireland. The rest of Europe needs it. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 17:49 Post #5 |
![]()
Administrator
|
Mairtin many of the issues affect Catholics in other countries, besides Ireland. How do you feel about the manner in which bishops are selected? We laity can write to the Nuncio, recommending a priest for the terna i.e. list of three short listed for the next episcopal vacancy. That in my opinion is not enough. Every priest in a diocese is consulted, but not the laity. It is said some selected laity are consulted. They are selected by the incumbent bishop! If I were a resident of Ireland and attended the Assembly I would like to suggest that when a short list has been drawn up, forms be made available for all parishioners, giving them an opportunity to express their opinions. I would like to see boxes where a priest could be rated on his performance as a priest and potential as a bishop under a list of headings. They would include
and a space for comments. If the suggestion were adopted, a person who has known the candidate where they have ministered will have an opportunity to vote a strong YES or NO. That is my quick list of items that come to mind immediately. * Item No 4 includes everybody, adults, children, laity, clergy, visitors. |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| Mairtin | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 19:29 Post #6 |
|
No, although organised by the ACP, it is targeted at the laity.
Although the conference is in Ireland, I think we all agree that the problems are worldwide. I suspect that this conference will have a lot of people looking on ... including the Vatican!
Ditto. I looked long and hard at Voice of The Faithful a year or so ago but then they publicly called for Cardinal Brady to resign (over the previous issues, not the current ones). I thought they were very wrong to get drawn into that. Also, I know what you mean about group[s caught up in an issue, VOTF is dominated by the child abuse issue; not that I want to minimalise that but I think we have to get down to the culture and structures that allowed and indeed encouraged the cover ups.
Thank you, I hope your prayers are answered. In fact, I'm going to post a prayer request for that. Edited by Mairtin, Saturday, 5. May 2012, 20:02.
|
![]() |
|
| Angus Toanimo | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 19:35 Post #7 |
![]()
Administrator
|
I think renewal of the Church in Ireland should start with the excommunication of the modernists who infiltrated her. |
![]()
| |
![]() |
|
| Mairtin | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 19:43 Post #8 |
|
I don't agree with that approach, Rose, inevitably only a few people will take up the opportunity and those with the strongest opinions may have an undue influence. I haven't time to go onto details right now but my own thinking is:
|
![]() |
|
| Mairtin | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 19:43 Post #9 |
|
Yaaaaawn |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 20:10 Post #10 |
![]()
Administrator
|
The priests have to work and minister under the bishop, so I agree that point. I still say nothing would be lost be asking the faithful for opinions. If, say, a priest from the diocese of Nottingham is recommended to be bishop of where I live now I might have been his parishioner, or I could have worked in close association with him at at deanery or diocese level, and know more about him than most priests in the diocese for which he is recommended. It is possible I could say lots of good positive things about him. |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| OsullivanB | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 20:45 Post #11 |
|
If you manage to work out what "modernism" actually is supposed to mean, please let me know. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
![]() |
|
| Derekap | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 21:33 Post #12 |
|
Much abuse was going on in Ireland (and elsewhere) and hushed before Vatican 2 if that is what you're hinting at, Angus. If, by chance, you think that current criticism and problems are due to use of vernacular language instead of Latin, what about the Catholic Oriental as well as Orthodox Rites? |
| Derekap | |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 21:58 Post #13 |
![]()
Administrator
|
http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.ie/2012/04/full-programme-for-gathering-on-monday-may-7th/
I do not think one day will suffice. Each session allows appointed speakers a few minutes, then an hour open discussion at the most. More days will need to be arranged to cover all the problems that need to be addressed. I hope the aim will be to build a better future, that is more positive than dragging up the past. |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| Gerard | Saturday, 5. May 2012, 22:13 Post #14 |
|
The Objectives of the ACP are:
http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.ie/objectives/ |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
![]() |
|
| James | Monday, 7. May 2012, 09:51 Post #15 |
|
James
|
I think many of us older people were taught that everything was in the "grand commission" "Thou art Peter etc" This is of course a truth , but we are now becoming aware that this is not the full picture. Possibly because people are more aware of scripture. If this were the full picture then why did the FATHER also ordain that I will now send you another - and we all read the impact of that coming in Acts. So there may be several voices but only one purpose. That , through sin, we can be renewed. The whole purpose which can be applied to the Church as well as the individual. We must now try and see the Trinity at work to try and make sense of it all. All we know is the promise through the Trinity - that the Church and it's members will not fail and renewal , from sin, will come through whatever means is being ordained. . Edited by James, Monday, 7. May 2012, 09:55.
|
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · General Catholic Discussion · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2









3:40 PM Jul 11