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Upon this rock I will build my church
Topic Started: Thursday, 3. May 2012, 17:48 (140 Views)
OsullivanB

This question has been nagging at me for some time and I'd like the input of forumites.

What does "church" mean here?

There was nothing resembling a Church when the words were spoken.

The Greek means "assembly" "gathering" originally the Athenian citizenry meeting as a legislative body.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Rose of York
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"I will" signified Jesus would build his church in the future. He did, by sending the Holy Spirit to inspire and empower the Apostles to go out an convert people to following Christ. The rock, Peter, had been commissioned by Jesus to lead the "assembly" that developed over time, and grew to the stage where a legislative body was needed. That body is led by Peter's successor.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

Bernard,

I think you possess the Ignatius study Bible. There is a note there (Mat 16:18) about the word. Scott Hahn says that the word is used often in the Greek OT for the congregation or assembly of Israel united to God. He also compares Jesus to Solomon. Jesus builds a new temple.

More later
Gerry
Edited by Gerard, Thursday, 3. May 2012, 18:40.
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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OsullivanB

I suppose I wonder what the apostles made of it at the time they heard it. In other words, what he was saying to them. I think we interpret it too readily with the hindsight knowledge of what actually later happened. But it is not my primary intention to contribute to this thread, but rather to listen. I do know that it was one of the major issues when the Bible was first translated into English, where the word "congregation" was used rather than "church". Arguably it is more faithful to the Greek, and it certainly has interestingly different resonance, though I don't mean to suggest that the Catholic Church would not be consistent with either translation.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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PJD

I agree with Rose's take on this. Reading for myself as Christ's foreknowledge so to speak.

PJD
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Gerard

Well V2 decided that "Church" needed to be dogmatically defined and they defined it as "The people of God" which would fit very well with assembly but less well with congregation.

According to Scott Hahn, the disciples would have been familiar already with "assembly" as meaning the people of God.

And I found this in Sacrosanctum Concillium

Quote:
 
Israel according to the flesh, which wandered as an exile in the desert, was already called the Church of God.(96)


and this

Quote:
 
This was to be the new People of God. For those who believe in Christ, who are reborn not from a perishable but from an imperishable seed through the word of the living God,(88) not from the flesh but from water and the Holy Spirit,(89) are finally established as "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people . . . who in times past were not a people, but are now the people of God".(90)


The disciples were well aware that Jesus was leading a new something, possibly a Kingdom, they knew he was a religious leader, Rabbi, and was establishing a religious group, possibly a theocratic kingdom. In any case they knew he was creating a group and expected good things from it. They were at least hoping he was the messiah and that they would be leaders subordinate to him.

Gerry
Edited by Gerard, Friday, 4. May 2012, 11:26.
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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