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" The Forbidden Rite" (2011); The Restoration....
Topic Started: Wednesday, 2. May 2012, 01:44 (1,212 Views)
Jamie

Rose of York
Thursday, 3. May 2012, 00:12
Angus Toanimo
Wednesday, 2. May 2012, 01:44
Quote:
 
Forbidden...powerful...beautiful...ancient...extraordinary....
Four of the five could be applied to me.
May I be the one gallant enough to point out that the only word not applying to our dear Rose is ancient....she is all too clearly in her Prime.....
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Jamie

As for Angus (remind me why Patrick is calling himself Angus now?) his position is that of someone throwing a party which no-one wants to attend.

Latin Mass is no better or worse than Mass in the vernacular, but other people demonstrably prefer to hear Mass in their own language.

Get over it.
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tomais

The way things and the way posts are going,I may well be voting for a coalition!
The village post office could well accommodate the persons on this subject and to the same end.
Mass in latin appears to be going the same way as the music hall. Old time affecionados tuning into Yesterday!
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Angus Toanimo
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Rose of York
Friday, 4. May 2012, 02:30
Angus Toanimo
Wednesday, 2. May 2012, 01:44
Join the Battle

Help fight for the restoration of the Latin Mass in your diocese!

Thank you Angus for inviting us to join in what appears to be a world wide internet based campaign. Judging by the posts on the first page of this topic, the effort is a non starter. It has as much chance of success as a petition inviting infant school children to call for ice cream to be banned.
Yes, I guess it would've been just as well received had I walked into a Free Presbyterian "church" in Belfast and handed out copies.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
Forbidden...powerful...beautiful...ancient...extraordinary....


Masses offered in English in my parish are powerful...beautiful...ancient...extraordinary.


Wow, not even my young children regard 1970 as "ancient". And even the Pope would disagree on your description of the Ordinary Form.

"Powerful".... In which way? The cult of the priest, or the Consecration?
"Beautiful".... What, once "Mrs laypriest" has finished the flowers?
"Ancient".... What, when most of the congregation are older than it? :rofl:
"Extraordinary".... Not according to the Holy Father it aint!

In fact, according to the Holy Father, it's an "banal, on the spot, fabricated product". But, what does he know?
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OsullivanB

I think Angus is called Angus because it's more Celtic than Canute.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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valleyboy

I can just remember the old form of mass from my childhood, so the imagery it throws up is mixed and unreliable. It conjures an era of bells and smells catholicism which has great aesthetic appeal and no little drama, especially for the priests celebrating, but not much in the way of transparency. It may be that understanding is over-rated as a key to worship, and Latin (or magic as I used to think of it) certainly has a compelling mix of unfamiliar sounds to transport the finer sensibility, but I'm not convinced aestheticism is the universal road to understanding, let alone God.

Liberal, ecumenical, universal and it's my church too.
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one of the flock

I too can remember Latin Masses as a child and following the readings etc in a missal. However I must say that I prefer having Mass in English. Not only are the readings intelligible without having recourse to using a book, it is easier to concentrate on prayers such as the Opening Prayer, Communion Antiphon, prayer after Communion, which I think often contain gems of phrases etc which are helpful and which strike the ear, so to speak. (Pity I cannot do an emotican for that!)
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Derekap
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Angus, can you quote chapter and verse to support your allegation that The Tridentine Holy Mass was forbidden?

I can't recall any persecution of Catholics who prefer it!
Derekap
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Rose of York
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Jamie
Friday, 4. May 2012, 08:41
Rose of York
Thursday, 3. May 2012, 00:12
Angus Toanimo
Wednesday, 2. May 2012, 01:44
Quote:
 
Forbidden...powerful...beautiful...ancient...extraordinary....
Four of the five could be applied to me.
May I be the one gallant enough to point out that the only word not applying to our dear Rose is ancient....she is all too clearly in her Prime.....
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Thank you Jamie. Off topic but gentlemen must always be thanked.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Angus Toanimo
Friday, 4. May 2012, 09:15
"Powerful".... In which way? The cult of the priest, or the Consecration?
"Beautiful".... What, once "Mrs laypriest" has finished the flowers?
"Ancient".... What, when most of the congregation are older than it? :rofl:
"Extraordinary".... Not according to the Holy Father it aint!

Every valid Mass is powerful, thanks to the power of God.
Every valid Mass is beautiful, because it helps us save our souls.
Every valid Mass is ancient because the priest is following Jesus' instruction, given 2000 years ago, to do this in memory of Him.
Every valid Mass is extraordinary because of the miracle that happens at the consecration.

Keep the Faith!

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James
James
Is latin actually a requirement in the seminaries generally any more ?
The last parish priest in our church told me he didn't know any latin.
It came about after rosary and benediction , which he had just started up, one Sunday afternoon .

There was only a few there and most were old Italian folk who seemed to be struggling with reponses in english.
I mentioned to him afterwards and thought maybe they might be be happier with latin as most of us also know the "pater nosters" and "ave Marias".

He said he would love to give it a try, if he could, but he just did not know latin to get through a rosary in it.

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Rose of York
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James
Sunday, 6. May 2012, 20:55
Is latin actually a requirement in the seminaries generally any more ?
I attended one Latin Mass, in about 1985. The priest was struggling with the Latin, he had been ordained round about 1970. I do not think he knew much Latin, he definitely was struggling with the pronunciation. The parish priest had been scheduled to be celebrant, he was called away on a family emergency so the other priest stepped into the breach.
Keep the Faith!

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Angus Toanimo
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Derekap
Sunday, 6. May 2012, 11:59
Angus, can you quote chapter and verse to support your allegation that The Tridentine Holy Mass was forbidden?

I can't recall any persecution of Catholics who prefer it!
Derek, the very fact that England obtained the "Agatha Christie" indult for the Tridentine Holy Mass to be celebrated in public and the very fact that JPII issued the 1984 Indult tells us that, unless it was a private celebration of that Mass, it's public celebration needed express permission from the (usually hostile) local Ordinary. In most instances, such permission was not granted.

For all intents and purposes, the Traditional Mass was suppressed by the hierarchy. Why else would Pope Benedict XVI even need to issue Summorum Pontificium, and only that at the request of the SSPX as one of their preconditions - not for them, but for the good of the whole Church?

After the Motu Proprio was issued, a document was distributed in relation to requesting of your local parish priest that he offer the Traditional Mass in addition to the Ordinary Form. I sent one to my local priest by email, and Royal Mail - guess what - neither was acknowledged, just completely ignored - not even a polite negative response.
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Angus Toanimo
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James
Sunday, 6. May 2012, 20:55
Is latin actually a requirement in the seminaries generally any more ?
Not just a requirement: 1983 Code, in the section "The Formation of Clerics":

Canon 249: The Charter of Priestly Formation is to provide that the students are not only taught their native language accurately, but are also well versed in latin, and have a suitable knowledge of other languages which would appear to be necessary or useful for their formation or for the exercise of their pastoral ministry.

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Derekap
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"Canon 249: The Charter of Priestly Formation is to provide that the students are not only taught their native language accurately, but are also well versed in latin, and have a suitable knowledge of other languages which would appear to be necessary or useful for their formation or for the exercise of their pastoral ministry"

So Seminarians now have to spend time, effort and money learning a non-vernacular language which is of no practical use* in the parishes and missions.
* except to a minority of people who wish to have Holy Mass in Latin and particularly the Extraordinary Rite or even the original Traditional Tridentine Rite.
Such learning should be optional.

Who pays for the petrol and meals and time for the priests to travel to York on two occasions per month for Holy Mass in Latin for about 50 people? Likewise countrywide, except perhaps in London. Do you think Holy Mass in Latin is more spiritually effective than in English or any other language? I hasten to add that I don't believe that it is less effective. If Latin was as popular as enthusiasts claim it is then twice a month York would need a church the size of York Minster!
Derekap
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