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| Churches condemn Saudi fatwa | |
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| Topic Started: Friday, 30. March 2012, 19:18 (280 Views) | |
| Marts | Friday, 30. March 2012, 19:18 Post #1 |
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Churches condemn Saudi fatwa Saudi Arabia's Muslim Grand Mufti calls for the destruction of Christian places of worship throughout the Arabian Peninsula. Action must be taken on this matter. Too many Christians are suffering religious discrimination in the Middle East. Everyone should contact their MP to ensure our government condemns such statements and actions. In addition all Catholics should ensure that their bishops join the German and Austrian church leaders in condemning this Saudi fatwa. http://www.thetablet.co.uk/latest-news/3988 |
| Jesus told us, his disciples, “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth” (John 16:13) | |
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| Chris | Saturday, 31. March 2012, 14:23 Post #2 |
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If the same pronouncement was made by a senior Christian cleric in Europe, imagine the outcry across the world? If Europe banned the building of mosques and synagogues? Western liberal values can sometimes be a one-way street. I've searched for condemnation by politicians and faith groups with relatively little success, especially considering that Saudi Arabia is a key Western ally. Why? Oil. Certainly not human rights or civil liberties:
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2012/03/24/european-bishops-slam-saudi-muftis-fatwa-against-gulf-churches/ |
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| paul | Saturday, 31. March 2012, 18:43 Post #3 |
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I suppose the bottom line is do you want to drive or walk to church? The reality is that the Saudis control oil flow, our whole economy would flounder should an "Oil Fatwa" be declared as well. High ideals are fine, but people have to eat. Of course the Church should make a statement to save the government the embarassment of making one. Who will put their head above the parapit? |
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| OsullivanB | Saturday, 31. March 2012, 18:54 Post #4 |
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Our bishops could, of course, make a lot of noise - about something they have neither jursidiction nor power to influence in any way. The most they might achieve is to stir up feeling in this country against Muslims, most of whom are not Wahhabi, the sect to which the Grand Mufti adheres. There are no Christian churches in Saudi Arabia - private Christian worship is in practice tolerated but public manifestations of it certainly are not. No Arab country is likely to take the slightest notice of this fatwa, though fanatical individuals and groups might be encouraged to vicious action (which they would porbably be minded to take anyway). The history of the Catholic church has its own episodes of wanton destruction of the places of worship of those of other faiths (and indeed those of other faiths themselves). Let's not get too high-horse-mounted about this. I would prefer bishops to use their time and access to the media to promote the faith within their jurisdiction. That would be useful. Prating about international affairs is not. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| paul | Saturday, 31. March 2012, 19:29 Post #5 |
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Good points. We do not publicly burn other nations flags in this sceptred isle. Historically, these sort of matters lead to wars. Mankind is destined to war, it has happened throughout history and is evident today. There are only intervals between the next conflict and the last. If somebody turns off the oil tap the West would go to war to turn it back on-fact! This seems to be mans' cross to bare. We have our church and the Holy Spirit to guide and comfort us. |
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| Chris | Saturday, 31. March 2012, 21:02 Post #6 |
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If it means turning my back on my Christian brothers and sisters, I'd prefer to walk. We can't have our cake and eat it. |
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| Marts | Saturday, 31. March 2012, 22:20 Post #7 |
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I think Chris’s point of view is line with the teachings of Jesus. Jesus laid down his life for others. |
| Jesus told us, his disciples, “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth” (John 16:13) | |
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| Rose of York | Saturday, 31. March 2012, 22:47 Post #8 |
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I would question the whether any Christian cleric in Europe or elsewhere making a similar pronouncement was faithful to his calling. Britain is a world leader of religious freedom. Our aim must be to bring other nations up to that standard, not to lower ours to theirs. Sheikh Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah would be delighted if our Christian leaders played tit for tat, calling for the destruction of mosques, synagogues and any other non Christian places of worship. His followers' passions would be inflamed and then the persecution of Christians would be more intensified. The fatwa is not only about Saudi Arabia. The Grand Mufti wants all Christian churches in the Arabian Peninsula to be destroyed. There are none in Saudi Extremist muslims in this country are far outnumbered by those in moderate, peaceful sects, just as extremist "Christians" are outnumbered by the rest of us. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| OsullivanB | Sunday, 1. April 2012, 10:00 Post #9 |
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It occurs to me (probably after most have thought and said it before) that there seems to be nothing in the New Testament about human rights, though there is an abundance of material to show us what our obligations are. I would be delighted to receive references which show this to be wrong. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 1. April 2012, 13:15 Post #10 |
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If individuals live according to the way of Christ there is no need for legislation on human rights, to which all are entitled irrespective of civil laws, which are passed when denial of rights becomes endemic. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 1. April 2012, 13:24 Post #11 |
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Jesus taught about human rights by his example, not in words. He could have said "Sorry, Centurion, I don't heal foreigners, get back to your own country" or "On yer bike, you worship false Gods". |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| OsullivanB | Sunday, 1. April 2012, 14:17 Post #12 |
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Surely the point of the story about the centurion is that he had absolutely no right to seek healing. He asked for mercy, generosity, compassion not entitlement. Of course, Jesus is the model for our behaviour, but that still seems to me to be teaching about our responsibilities and not our rights. Indeed, if we do no more than recognise and respect other people's rights, strictly defined, we are very likely to fail in our Christian responsibilities. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Marts | Tuesday, 3. April 2012, 18:49 Post #13 |
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I agree, OsB. Jesus went beyond teaching human rights to teach us to love God and to love our neighbours as ourselves. The Old T taught us that we were made in the image of God and that gives us rights. But Jesus was trying to get us away from rules and laws. He wanted us to learn that God is love and love should govern everything we think and do. |
| Jesus told us, his disciples, “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth” (John 16:13) | |
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| Rose of York | Tuesday, 3. April 2012, 20:08 Post #14 |
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Right are being strictly defined by legislation. If we live up to our Christian responsibilities we recognise the other person's moral right to be given whatever help they need, for example to be fed when they are hungry. My neighbour has a right, by being a person, not to be racially abused, whether or not such behaviour is forbidden by State law. Jesus said we must love our neighbours. My neighbour has a moral right to be loved by all, and that love is not slushy sentimentalism, it must be put into practise. We have a moral right to be free from being hated, to be treated with dignity and respect. Is that what you are getting at, Bernard? |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| OsullivanB | Tuesday, 3. April 2012, 20:19 Post #15 |
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Almost. I am exploring this question. Does the language of "rights" reflect anything that Jesus taught (or for that matter St Paul)? Or was Jesus concerned exclusively with our obligations? He never said that our neighbour had the right to be loved by us as we love ourselves. He never said that the man by the wayside had a right to be helped by the Samaritan etc. etc. When the labourers in the vineyard stood up for their "right" to fair pay it became clear that they had no such "right". This is not to cast doubt on the proposition that rights should be defined and protected by the law of the land, or the proposition that in framing and enforcing them we should be informed by our Christianity. I don't want to be thought to have this all cut and dried in my own mind. it is just something that occurred to me that I thought we might all like to explore together. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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3:42 PM Jul 11