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The Church in the Future
Topic Started: Thursday, 15. December 2011, 23:15 (529 Views)
Marts

In the book The Crisis of Authority in Catholic Modernity by Michael J. Lacey and Francis Oakley, released this year, a number of interesting points are raised which will effect the Church for many years. In the Prologue Michael Lacy mentions one such point raised in the book by Katarina Schuth, Professor for the Social Scientific Study of Religion, St Paul Seminary School of Divinity, University of St Thomas, St Paul, Minnesota.

Quote:
 
Sr Katarina Schuth’s report assessing the education of priests and lay ministers in American seminaries today is chock-full of sobering information about one aspect of the lay-clerical gap and its implications. It shows that the vocational crisis is much deeper than falling numbers alone indicate. Candidates for the priesthood are being selected in part for their strong ideological preferences and their hopes for membership in an exclusive cultic priesthood content to proudly stand apart…

They are being trained, moreover, for a world of easy deference that no longer exists and are unprepared for the encounter they are about to have with parishioners who wish to think for themselves and are leery of any command-and-control attitudes or mannerisms…Conflict and misunderstanding seem inevitable… It is almost as if they are being programmed to fail…


Lacy interestingly continues in his Prologue:

Quote:
 
A necessary starting point for any improvement in the life of the Church is candid discussion and debate within it, a point registered by most of this books authors. That such a simple thing may be impossible at the moment shows how deep the crisis of authority has become, and observers of church affairs are mindful of the unhappy fate of Cardinal Joseph Bernardin’s common ground initiative of 1996, which had this aim. For almost all within his jurisdiction, Cardinal Bernardin was a model for authentic leadership, an example of how to do things right. He showed in his conduct of office what legitimate authority today might look like.

When he proposed to initiate a process of discussion of the problems that divided the faithful, however, he was in a very rare maneuver publicly criticised by four of his fellow cardinals…led by Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston, who would soon be swept up in public controversy over his handling of the sex abuse crisis at its ground zero location and virtually driven from office by the laity in his charge, an unprecedented event. Bernardin’s critics objected on grounds that discussions would only exacerbate things. The overriding need, they felt, was not to talk, but simply to comply with what the sacred authority in which they participated called for. With his untimely death, Bernardin’s initiative fizzled out, and he was replaced by one who thought differently about the exercise of leadership and agreed with the critics, Cardinal Francis George.


The future does not look good for the Church if seminary training is not improved and seminarians are not made aware of the lay-clerical gap, to use Lacy’s phrase, and encouraged to bridge the gap.

In addition, open discussion is essential in problem areas, however, Benedict’s sacking of bishops for suggesting discussions on women priests does not auger well for the near future.

Jesus told us, his disciples, “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth” (John 16:13)
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Rose of York
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Marts
Thursday, 15. December 2011, 23:15


Quote:
 
Sr Katarina Schuth’s report assessing the education of priests and lay ministers in American seminaries today is chock-full of sobering information about one aspect of the lay-clerical gap and its implications. It shows that the vocational crisis is much deeper than falling numbers alone indicate. Candidates for the priesthood are being selected in part for their strong ideological preferences and their hopes for membership in an exclusive cultic priesthood content to proudly stand apart…
What's new about their hopes for membership in an exclusive cultic priesthood content to proudly stand apart? 'Twas always so. The days of licking the boots of lawyers, doctors, and other highly qualified professionals are over. "The Church" moves slowly. in this matter too slowly. Vicars and non conformist ministers are, as a general rule, more approachable than our priests.
Keep the Faith!

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Ned

Marts
Thursday, 15. December 2011, 23:15
... In addition, open discussion is essential in problem areas, however, Benedict’s sacking of bishops for suggesting discussions on women priests does not auger well for the near future.

Hullo Marts,

There are certainly problems with the clergy, but it's the lay leadership that really scare me.

Please, if you have the time,watch this RTE Would-You-Believe-It two-part series, "Back to the Future" -

part 1, 4th December, http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1125229

part 2, 11th December, http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1126327

Both programmes have some very sensible comments from Archbishop Martin. As for some of the rest of them, clergy and laity, I'd have serious concerns.

Regards

Ned

Edited by Ned, Friday, 16. December 2011, 00:19.
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PJD

"Vicars and non conformist ministers are, as a general rule, more approachable than our priests. "

I would not necessarily agree that they are more approachable Rose, but that their thinking may be more "politically-correct" with the accord of secularism and secularism's tendency to turn the decalogue upside down/inside out to suit.

If our seminarians/serminaries follow this path then I wouldn't like to predict what will turn out in the future - but think such as unlikely to be other than discord.

PJD
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paul

When I advised my pp that we needed a democratic approach to church matters (not liturgy) such as building, social events, fund raising etc. He said that the church was a theocracy not a democracy.

I told him that people needed to feel appreciated and that they had an involvement in the day to day running of their church.

We now have a new pp and he has inherited a £18,000 debt as a result of purchasing a replacement organ (used once a week!)

We are in the middle of a recession and the church has to cut its cloth as the rest of society does.
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Rose of York
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paul
Friday, 16. December 2011, 19:51
When I advised my pp that we needed a democratic approach to church matters (not liturgy) such as building, social events, fund raising etc. He said that the church was a theocracy not a democracy.
That is often said when parishioners ask why they are not consulted. The Church is not a democracy in matters of doctrine, but I see no reason why there is no compulsion for a parish priest to consult parishioners before spending large sums. It boils down to whether the priest has good manners or bad manners, it's a bit bolshy and yobbish telling people they are expected to cough up because one person made a decision to spend because HE felt like it. There must be plenty of high quality organs in churches and non conformist chapels scheduled for closure or recently closed. Do they end up on the scrap heap?
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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paul
Friday, 16. December 2011, 19:51
When I advised my pp that we needed a democratic approach to church matters (not liturgy) such as building, social events, fund raising etc. He said that the church was a theocracy not a democracy.
Ordinariate groups retain some element of their Anglican Patrimony and that includes consultation on such matters.
Keep the Faith!

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Derekap
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"We now have a new pp and he has inherited a £18,000 debt as a result of purchasing a replacement organ (used once a week!)"

The culprit should have followed the example of the humble Austrian priest whose church organ was damaged by mice!
Derekap
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OsullivanB

Derekap
Sunday, 18. December 2011, 13:49
"We now have a new pp and he has inherited a £18,000 debt as a result of purchasing a replacement organ (used once a week!)"

The culprit should have followed the example of the humble Austrian priest whose church organ was damaged by mice!
Related to the Trapp family?
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Anne-Marie

Nah, OSB - the von Trapps were not priests, though one did have fun as a trainee nun!

Is Derek referring to the composer of Silent Night?

Few priests seem to have any grasp of the consequences of brushing the congregation aside as money is spent - the priests move on, and the people are left to pick up the bills. Never works unless you have one of those rare, inspirational leaders as your priest, as we do for the moment.
Paul's priest seems far more arrogant than Christian to me! Though he probably means well, in his detached mind.
Anne-Marie
FIAT VOLUNTAS DEI
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Rose of York
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Anne-Marie
Sunday, 18. December 2011, 16:53

Paul's priest seems far more arrogant than Christian to me! Though he probably means well, in his detached mind.
Paul's priest inherited the debt, he did not cause it.
Keep the Faith!

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OsullivanB

I was thinking of the mice rather than the clergy.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Deacon Robert
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Mice? I ended up thinking of the Mony Python skit with the mice xylophone
Edited by Deacon Robert, Sunday, 18. December 2011, 18:34.
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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Rose of York
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Oh dear another potentially good topic gone off beam. Lets have another try.
:topicbaack:
Marts quoted in the opening post:

Michael Lacy
 
A necessary starting point for any improvement in the life of the Church is candid discussion and debate within it, a point registered by most of this books authors. That such a simple thing may be impossible at the moment shows how deep the crisis of authority has become, and observers of church affairs are mindful of the unhappy fate of Cardinal Joseph Bernardin’s common ground initiative of 1996, which had this aim. For almost all within his jurisdiction, Cardinal Bernardin was a model for authentic leadership, an example of how to do things right. He showed in his conduct of office what legitimate authority today might look like.

When he proposed to initiate a process of discussion of the problems that divided the faithful, however, he was in a very rare maneuver publicly criticised by four of his fellow cardinals…led by Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston, who would soon be swept up in public controversy over his handling of the sex abuse crisis at its ground zero location and virtually driven from office by the laity in his charge, an unprecedented event. Bernardin’s critics objected on grounds that discussions would only exacerbate things. The overriding need, they felt, was not to talk, but simply to comply with what the sacred authority in which they participated called for. With his untimely death, Bernardin’s initiative fizzled out, and he was replaced by one who thought differently about the exercise of leadership and agreed with the critics, Cardinal Francis George.


From the website of the Cardinal Bernardin Centre:
http://www.ctu.edu/bernardin-center/catholic-common-ground-initiative

Quote:
 
Catholic Common Ground Initiative

In 1996, the Catholic Common Ground Initiative was founded in an effort to lessen polarities and divisions that weaken the communion of the Church. At the origin of the Initiative, the National Pastoral Life Center released a charter statement, “Called to Be Catholic,” proposing guidelines for dialogue within the Church.

The Initiative begun thirteen years ago by Cardinal Bernardin continues today. The Catholic Common Ground Initiative is committed not only to facilitating dialogue but also to exemplifying a process of communication that values varying perspectives and works to foster faith and understanding.

Through lectures, conferences, and programs in Catholic parishes, schools, and organizations, the Catholic Common Ground Initiative continues to promote dialogue within the Church on a variety of theological and social issues, including the changing roles of women, human sexuality, healthcare reform, and immigration—challenges facing not just the American Catholic Church but the United States as a whole.

In the Spring of 2009, the Initiative created a new strategic plan, “A Living Witness.” The Initiative moved to the Bernardin Center at Catholic Theological Union in November 2009.

For more information about the Catholic Common Ground Initiative, please contact the director of the Bernardin Center:

Sheila McLaughlin
Phone: 773.371.5435
Email: bernardincenter@ctu.edu

:topicbaack:


Keep the Faith!

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paul

Rose have you posted my brogues yet? I am desperate and feel embarrased shuffling up the eisle barefoot! Have pity.
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