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| The Church in the Future | |
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| Topic Started: Thursday, 15. December 2011, 23:15 (529 Views) | |
| Marts | Thursday, 15. December 2011, 23:15 Post #1 |
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In the book The Crisis of Authority in Catholic Modernity by Michael J. Lacey and Francis Oakley, released this year, a number of interesting points are raised which will effect the Church for many years. In the Prologue Michael Lacy mentions one such point raised in the book by Katarina Schuth, Professor for the Social Scientific Study of Religion, St Paul Seminary School of Divinity, University of St Thomas, St Paul, Minnesota.
Lacy interestingly continues in his Prologue:
The future does not look good for the Church if seminary training is not improved and seminarians are not made aware of the lay-clerical gap, to use Lacy’s phrase, and encouraged to bridge the gap. In addition, open discussion is essential in problem areas, however, Benedict’s sacking of bishops for suggesting discussions on women priests does not auger well for the near future. |
| Jesus told us, his disciples, “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth” (John 16:13) | |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 15. December 2011, 23:42 Post #2 |
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What's new about their hopes for membership in an exclusive cultic priesthood content to proudly stand apart? 'Twas always so. The days of licking the boots of lawyers, doctors, and other highly qualified professionals are over. "The Church" moves slowly. in this matter too slowly. Vicars and non conformist ministers are, as a general rule, more approachable than our priests. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Ned | Friday, 16. December 2011, 00:15 Post #3 |
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Hullo Marts, There are certainly problems with the clergy, but it's the lay leadership that really scare me. Please, if you have the time,watch this RTE Would-You-Believe-It two-part series, "Back to the Future" - part 1, 4th December, http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1125229 part 2, 11th December, http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1126327 Both programmes have some very sensible comments from Archbishop Martin. As for some of the rest of them, clergy and laity, I'd have serious concerns. Regards Ned Edited by Ned, Friday, 16. December 2011, 00:19.
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| PJD | Friday, 16. December 2011, 12:35 Post #4 |
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"Vicars and non conformist ministers are, as a general rule, more approachable than our priests. " I would not necessarily agree that they are more approachable Rose, but that their thinking may be more "politically-correct" with the accord of secularism and secularism's tendency to turn the decalogue upside down/inside out to suit. If our seminarians/serminaries follow this path then I wouldn't like to predict what will turn out in the future - but think such as unlikely to be other than discord. PJD |
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| paul | Friday, 16. December 2011, 19:51 Post #5 |
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When I advised my pp that we needed a democratic approach to church matters (not liturgy) such as building, social events, fund raising etc. He said that the church was a theocracy not a democracy. I told him that people needed to feel appreciated and that they had an involvement in the day to day running of their church. We now have a new pp and he has inherited a £18,000 debt as a result of purchasing a replacement organ (used once a week!) We are in the middle of a recession and the church has to cut its cloth as the rest of society does. |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 18. December 2011, 00:36 Post #6 |
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That is often said when parishioners ask why they are not consulted. The Church is not a democracy in matters of doctrine, but I see no reason why there is no compulsion for a parish priest to consult parishioners before spending large sums. It boils down to whether the priest has good manners or bad manners, it's a bit bolshy and yobbish telling people they are expected to cough up because one person made a decision to spend because HE felt like it. There must be plenty of high quality organs in churches and non conformist chapels scheduled for closure or recently closed. Do they end up on the scrap heap? |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 18. December 2011, 00:37 Post #7 |
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Ordinariate groups retain some element of their Anglican Patrimony and that includes consultation on such matters. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Derekap | Sunday, 18. December 2011, 13:49 Post #8 |
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"We now have a new pp and he has inherited a £18,000 debt as a result of purchasing a replacement organ (used once a week!)" The culprit should have followed the example of the humble Austrian priest whose church organ was damaged by mice! |
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| OsullivanB | Sunday, 18. December 2011, 14:16 Post #9 |
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Related to the Trapp family? |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Anne-Marie | Sunday, 18. December 2011, 16:53 Post #10 |
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Nah, OSB - the von Trapps were not priests, though one did have fun as a trainee nun! Is Derek referring to the composer of Silent Night? Few priests seem to have any grasp of the consequences of brushing the congregation aside as money is spent - the priests move on, and the people are left to pick up the bills. Never works unless you have one of those rare, inspirational leaders as your priest, as we do for the moment. Paul's priest seems far more arrogant than Christian to me! Though he probably means well, in his detached mind. |
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Anne-Marie FIAT VOLUNTAS DEI | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 18. December 2011, 16:59 Post #11 |
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Paul's priest inherited the debt, he did not cause it. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| OsullivanB | Sunday, 18. December 2011, 18:06 Post #12 |
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I was thinking of the mice rather than the clergy. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Deacon Robert | Sunday, 18. December 2011, 18:33 Post #13 |
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Mice? I ended up thinking of the Mony Python skit with the mice xylophone
Edited by Deacon Robert, Sunday, 18. December 2011, 18:34.
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 18. December 2011, 18:47 Post #14 |
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Oh dear another potentially good topic gone off beam. Lets have another try.![]() Marts quoted in the opening post:
From the website of the Cardinal Bernardin Centre: http://www.ctu.edu/bernardin-center/catholic-common-ground-initiative
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| paul | Sunday, 18. December 2011, 20:26 Post #15 |
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Rose have you posted my brogues yet? I am desperate and feel embarrased shuffling up the eisle barefoot! Have pity. |
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3:42 PM Jul 11