| We hope you enjoy your visit! You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Do Animals Have Souls?; If they can go to heaven - can they be damned? | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Wednesday, 2. December 2009, 19:57 (1,791 Views) | |
| OsullivanB | Saturday, 12. May 2012, 08:30 Post #211 |
|
You will know when the time is ripe. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
![]() |
|
| Angus Toanimo | Saturday, 12. May 2012, 10:09 Post #212 |
![]()
Administrator
|
|
![]()
| |
![]() |
|
| Derekap | Saturday, 12. May 2012, 11:24 Post #213 |
|
Surely St Bernards must be in Heaven!
|
| Derekap | |
![]() |
|
| James | Saturday, 12. May 2012, 15:26 Post #214 |
|
James
|
Possible !! They have a tendency to hold the map upside down though and end up somewhere else. You will find them in cars a lot, as well as trying to work out what and why they are where they are, at any particular point in time or place Very complicated - but yes - possible you may find one or two in heaven by mistake. Edited by James, Saturday, 12. May 2012, 15:34.
|
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Saturday, 12. May 2012, 16:49 Post #215 |
![]()
Administrator
|
Do animals need to go to Purgatory? Do any animals go to Hell? |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| pat | Saturday, 12. May 2012, 21:58 Post #216 |
|
Perhaps my old cat is in purgatory for all the times she stole food, jumped on the kitchen counters, and left "presents" just outside the litterbox! (I still loved her, though) |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Thursday, 17. May 2012, 19:24 Post #217 |
![]()
Administrator
|
The three powers of the soul are memory, understanding and will. Read how this animal remembers what he has been taught, understands how to do it, and if has the will to learn. Watch the video to see the animal in action. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/norman-the-dog-rides-bike-.html |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| Deacon Robert | Friday, 18. May 2012, 20:29 Post #218 |
|
"The three powers of the soul are memory, understanding and will." Just for the sake of discussion, and because I have lived with higher functioning animals (dogs, cats, horses, squirrells- the first 2 or 3 who seem to show remorse for their actions an and ability to learn and adapt) they seem to understand there are consequences for bad choices. May there be differences in self awareness? How does this impact on the naturals souls of animals presence in heaven? |
|
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Friday, 18. May 2012, 20:40 Post #219 |
![]()
Administrator
|
I have just seen a documentary about soldier ants. We consider them to be of the lower order of animals. They work together in communities, they plan their construction projects and they know how to do gather the correct materials and build bridges. Birds migrate thousands of miles, and later they return to the original departure point. They were able to navigate before mankind did it. We humans are conceited. Because we need oxygen and water we think life cannot exist without them. Who is to know whether God made other living beings that do not need water or oxygen? |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Friday, 18. May 2012, 20:41 Post #220 |
![]()
Administrator
|
Robert are you asking if to get to Heaven an animal needs to follow its conscience, do good and avoid evil? |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| Deacon Robert | Friday, 18. May 2012, 23:11 Post #221 |
|
Rose, I don't quite know. It was something I was musing about. Those of us who have had dogs and cats have noticed that they can learn they can also show remorse when they are caught at something that they know is wrong. They also are able to show remorse or loss when something or someone they are attached to dies or is gone. Does this put them at a higher level than those animals who cannot or do not have the ability to do the same. As to soldier ants or honeybees. I think I have mentioned somewhere in the last five years that I have raised honeybees for now probably about 10 years so I am familiar with the hive mentality. It is pretty much the same with all insects including soldier ants or Army ants. They have a hive mentality that is basically guided by pheromones. They act on these as a group but no do not think so they are not really higher functioning mentalities they are a group mentality. Honeybees will take a guidance from a forager who has found a large amount of pollen or nectar producing flowers they will signal that and the direction to the rest of the hive at this point the hive will dispatch other bees the harvest until the nectar is to a point where it is no longer sufficient to sustain the high then they will send the group the hive to the next best nectar producer there's really no Sunday and thought is strictly a case of instinct. In the case of soldier ants a direction has been determined by the hive and they will proceed in that direction even if it means that they will crawl over the bodies of their dead hive mates. They do not adapt they sacrificed themselves for the good of the hive. Birds such as homing pigeons or if you really want to go to the swallows of Capistrano is ingrained into their very makeup where their home is it is the same actually with the monarch butterfly which spreads throughout the United States in the summer but migrates back to Mexico to propagate the next years butterflies swallows don't go to Dallas Texas for monarchs don't go to Buffalo New York to propagate in the raid new young there is no thought it's ingrained into their genetic makeup. So we are back to the beginning. A baby or young child sees in the face of his mother or father the face of God. As they become older most realize that there is something more. Could it be possible that as animals of higher-order of intelligence progress they made see God as we see him. Human beings spent many years but, indeed millenniums understanding that there was something higher than themselves. |
|
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Friday, 18. May 2012, 23:21 Post #222 |
![]()
Administrator
|
They do know about love. Some say a dog does not have real love, it just co-operates knowing it depends upon the owner for food and other necessities. What about when there are joint owners, a couple or family? When I went away for a few days my dog sat in the porch all day and every day, waiting for me to return, despite me not being the one who usually fed him (my husband was doing that). I think it is possible. We might find out, in our afterlife. The information you gave about the "lower order" animals such as insects was very enlightening. My knowledge of them is rather scant. Thank you for taking so much trouble over it. |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| Deacon Robert | Saturday, 19. May 2012, 00:26 Post #223 |
|
I think that may be a point about those who say food drives the dog. However, if we are to believe that a dog progresses 7 years during our 1 year, why did Greyfriars bobby wait for the return of his "master" for years until his death when he was not fed by his "master"? No, there is much more that God has not revealed to us. We know what is necessary for our salvation yet we still see in a clouded mirror when it comes to his plan and intention. |
|
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · General Catholic Discussion · Next Topic » |









3:40 PM Jul 11