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| Praying in churches of other denominations; Split from the Ordinariate topic | |
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| Topic Started: Monday, 28. November 2011, 14:28 (1,547 Views) | |
| Gerard | Sunday, 4. December 2011, 19:40 Post #46 |
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Thanks, Patrick, I will take that as a compliment. This idea ocurred to me a couple of years ago. And last year I happened to be reading about an imposter priest who had been celebrating Sunday mass for a while in a catholic parish. Some catholic document was quoted (I dont remember which, dont remember the level of authority, and would be hard pressed to find it or the article again) which speculated that for the ordinary parishoners Our Lord may have consecrated the bread and wine individually. So, my idea was not new, and if Our Lord would do this for catholics He might do so for anglicans who believe. "Everything is possible for those who believe" Gerry Edited by Gerard, Sunday, 4. December 2011, 20:00.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| saundthorp | Sunday, 4. December 2011, 22:18 Post #47 |
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You make a good point there PJD. If I had been having this discussion on an Anglican discussion board I may well have chosen different wording, but we are on a Catholic board discussing the topic among Catholics (I presume) Therefore there shouldn't be a problem with saying things as they are. There is a hint in Gerry's remark that I lack respect for our separated bretheren. Nothing could be further from the truth. |
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Truth is still the truth even if no one believes it. Error is still error even if everyone believes it. (Archbishop Fulton Sheen) | |
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| Deleted User | Monday, 5. December 2011, 00:44 Post #48 |
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The only thing I dislike about this Forum is the tendency to copy large chunks of preceding posts. I realise it makes it clear what we are referring to in our replies but I still find it irritating. However, just to disprove my own point--and with apologies to Saundthorp who might think I am getting at him/her personally let me break my own rule "With the exception of Baptism the spiritual reality of sacraments within the Anglican Communion was settled in 1896 when Pope Leo XIII declared in his Apostolicae Curae, that ordinations carried out according to the Anglican rite were absolutely null and utterly void." Really? 1896? One man can declare this? In my view, all nonsense and it is time we approached the rest of the world in the Christian humility that Jesus urged upon us. John |
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| saundthorp | Monday, 5. December 2011, 12:15 Post #49 |
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Sorry John, Pope Leo's statement in 1896 wasn't nonsense. It just shows how forward thinking the Holy Spirit was when he inspired the Pope to write in such emphatic terms. The Holy Spirit knew it was going to be very much needed in our time. |
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Truth is still the truth even if no one believes it. Error is still error even if everyone believes it. (Archbishop Fulton Sheen) | |
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| Mairtin | Tuesday, 6. December 2011, 10:16 Post #50 |
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I have attended weddings in the Church of Ireland where, on the invitation of the minister, I have taken part in their communion. I have a passionate belief in the Real Presence, it is the very bedrock of my Faith, participating in non-Catholic communion had no relevance whatsoever to that for me and I really wish you would stop tossing out such arrogant accusations about other people's commitment to the Faith.
Are you accusing me of being dishonest? What grave scandal did I cause. |
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| Mairtin | Tuesday, 6. December 2011, 10:52 Post #51 |
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The first Christian communities did not restrict celebration of the Eucharist and the Consecration to ordained priests, does that mean their Consecration was invalid and that they were committing heresy? |
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| Gerard | Tuesday, 6. December 2011, 19:58 Post #52 |
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Do you have any evidence for that mairtin? Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Tuesday, 6. December 2011, 20:00 Post #53 |
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I have been finding it a touch amusing that for a while now this thread has been using the word communion but concentrating on the real presence in the host and pretty much ignoring the communion. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| KatyA | Tuesday, 6. December 2011, 20:43 Post #54 |
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EWTN Receiving communion is a sign of visible communion, and a statement of full agreement with others present in a shared faith. Scripture is clear that partaking of the Eucharist is among the highest signs of Christian unity: "Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread" (1 Cor. 10:17). To share communion with non-Catholic Christians would be a false attempt at ecumenical unity. |
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| Angus Toanimo | Tuesday, 6. December 2011, 21:42 Post #55 |
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Administrator
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By taking Communion in the Church of Ireland, you as a Catholic have publicly stated that you are in Communion with them, share their beliefs and their teachings. To participate in their Communion is to reject the Real Presence and belief in Transubstantiation. |
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| Emee | Tuesday, 6. December 2011, 23:33 Post #56 |
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Harsh words Patrick. Mairtin has just told us: "I have a passionate belief in the Real Presence, it is the very bedrock of my Faith..." Conversely my Greek Orthodox friend who went to our RC Secondary school, after RC Primary school, and was Confirmed after being Baptised as a baby, was always told she could not receive the Eucharist in our Church. It seems now that she was wrongly advised. Small wonder, after spending years being the only one sitting out of going up for Holy Communion at school Masses, that she cut her ties with Catholicism at the first opportunity after leaving school. A tragedy - all due to misinformation. Makes me livid to be honest... |
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| Rose of York | Tuesday, 6. December 2011, 23:56 Post #57 |
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Patrick are you able to provide a link to authoritative teaching that participation in the Communion of a denomination that lacks validity of priesthood and Eucharist is to reject the Real Presence and belief in Transubstantiation? My personal hunch, not based on any formal document, is that reception of Communion host or wine offered as a symbol and taken as a symbol does not deny the Real Presence at a valid Mass, or the doctrine of transubstantation. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Angus Toanimo | Wednesday, 7. December 2011, 00:16 Post #58 |
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For the love of God, is it really rocket science? When Protestantism was formed one of the first things they did was to deny Transubstantiation and replaced it with some symbolic rubbish. They denied the Real Presence. It was Catholic hocus pocus. What on God's earth do you think that his participation in a protestant communion would tell the people around him, and other Catholics? By participating in what is an ultimate rejection of the Holy Mass he is complicit in that rejection. Please let me know if I'm the only Catholic that sees it like that? No wonder some outside the Church think that it isn't worth becoming a Catholic when Catholics themselves are quite happy to participate in their heretical and/or schismatic worship services. Edited by Angus Toanimo, Wednesday, 7. December 2011, 00:20.
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| Clare | Wednesday, 7. December 2011, 00:32 Post #59 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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It is arguably also idolatry to take communion in a denomination which neither has, nor claims to have, the Real Presence. It is placing bread on the same level as the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Deleted User | Wednesday, 7. December 2011, 00:53 Post #60 |
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Why is it not possible to take Communion regularly at Mass as a Catholic acknowledging the Real Presence and on another occasion at another Christian act of worship take Communion with them on their own terms ie it as an act of commemoration? Why should the latter be seen as denying the former? John |
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3:43 PM Jul 11