Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit!
You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language.
If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Crossing the Threshold
Topic Started: Tuesday, 15. November 2011, 02:57 (1,270 Views)
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Catholic Church in England and Wales Press Release

Quote:
 
National tour to support ministry and outreach to non churchgoing Catholics to launch in York

The tour is called ‘Crossing the Threshold’ and has been organised in response to concerns repeatedly expressed by priests and parishioners about the large number of baptised who never or rarely attend Sunday Mass. It is estimated that at least two-thirds of the baptised Catholic community in England and Wales is non churchgoing which equates to approximately four to five million people. This makes for a significant constituency of people who, in most cases, self-identify as Catholic but never or rarely attend Mass.

Five days are being offered: 12 November (2011) in York, 4 February (2012) in Birmingham, 3 March in Crawley, 28 April in Westminster and 23 June in Cardiff. The day in York will take place at English Martyrs Church, 9.30am – 3.30pm. Bishop Arthur Roche (Leeds), Bishop Terence Drainey (Middlesbrough) and Bishop John Rawsthorne (Hallam) will attend the event. Everyone is welcome.

‘Crossing the Threshold’ is an initiative of the Department for Evangelisation and Catechesis, Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales. Department Chair, Bishop Kieran Conry, said: “I would like to encourage every parish within easy travelling distance to send at least one representative to the tour day closest to them, with the initial focus the day in York.”

The tour is part of a three-year project to develop this area of ministry and outreach. During 2010 a national core group for this ministry was formed, in March of this year a day for 90 diocesan personnel was hosted in Westminster, 2012 will see the completion of the national tour, climaxing with the publication of a step-by-step resource in 2013. The project is being coordinated by the Home Mission Desk of the Bishops’ Conference.

There is no charge to attend the days but pre-booking is requested. More information is available from http://www.catholicchurch.org.uk/Catholic-Church/Home-Mission/Non-Churchgoing-Catholics Bookings can also be made by ringing 0207 901 4818 and 0770 939 1998.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Has anybody else heard about this? I knew nothing until a few minutes ago when I received my daily email from Catholic World News. There is no mention of it on The Universe or Catholic Herald websites.

Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Penfold
Member Avatar

Rose of York
Tuesday, 15. November 2011, 03:09
Has anybody else heard about this? I knew nothing until a few minutes ago when I received my daily email from Catholic World News. There is no mention of it on The Universe or Catholic Herald websites.

I have heard of Crossing the Threshold but have had no details of the tour. Since the November dates have already past this would appear to be a triumph of incompetence on the part of the organisation who are being paid to assist the Church with its very important role of Evangalision,
Edited by Penfold, Tuesday, 15. November 2011, 06:54.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gerard

I had not heard of it.
Reaching out to the 2/3rds or 4/5ths who dont attend Mass is an excellent idea.
But is this reaching out? Talks in Cathedrals and Churches?

In recent months I have come to realise that we approach this with the wrong attitude. We assume the 4/5ths are somehow wrong and we just need to move them into the right. However, I now think we should be asking them what we are doing wrong and how we can put it right.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Angus Toanimo
Member Avatar
Administrator
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/13/catholic-church-reevangelise-campaign

Read all about it!

Quote:
 
Kieran Conry, bishop of Arundel and Brighton, said no-shows were more likely to do with laziness and children's extra-curricular commitments than controversies surrounding the pope or clerical sexual abuse scandals. Conry said: "We have something we're trying to market and we're just reminding people there's something that can bring you happiness, satisfaction and friendship."


Salvation, anyone? Seriously, +Conry, wake up!!

Conry said: "We have something we're trying to market and we're just reminding people there's something that can bring you happiness, satisfaction and friendship."


:rofl: :deadhorse:

People can get all this from secular groups, clubs and organisations. Fact is +Conry, you couldn't sell water to a fish.

It's quite sad when a bishop of the Church has no option but sell the Novus Ordo on earthly comforts rather than spiritual benefits.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OsullivanB

Gerard
Tuesday, 15. November 2011, 10:11
I had not heard of it.
Reaching out to the 2/3rds or 4/5ths who dont attend Mass is an excellent idea.
But is this reaching out? Talks in Cathedrals and Churches?

In recent months I have come to realise that we approach this with the wrong attitude. We assume the 4/5ths are somehow wrong and we just need to move them into the right. However, I now think we should be asking them what we are doing wrong and how we can put it right.

Gerry
These meetings are not the outreach but to recruit the outreachers, as I understand it.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PJD

"I have heard of Crossing the Threshold but have had no details of the tour. Since the November dates have already past this would appear to be a triumph of incompetence on the part of the organisation who are being paid to assist the Church with its very important role of Evangalision,
Edited by Penfold, Today, 5:54 AM."


Quite right too Penfold. I did warn you some time ago to be very circumspect about the abilities of lay people. Full stop!

:nw:

The spiritual angle is best in my opinion; and that is the job of the priest i.e. to teach humility first, from which if you desire many good things they will flow.

PJD
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Patrick
Tuesday, 15. November 2011, 11:43
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/13/catholic-church-reevangelise-campaign

Read all about it!

Quote:
 
Kieran Conry, bishop of Arundel and Brighton, said no-shows were more likely to do with laziness and children's extra-curricular commitments than controversies surrounding the pope or clerical sexual abuse scandals. Conry said: "We have something we're trying to market and we're just reminding people there's something that can bring you happiness, satisfaction and friendship."


Salvation, anyone? Seriously, +Conry, wake up!!

Conry said: "We have something we're trying to market and we're just reminding people there's something that can bring you happiness, satisfaction and friendship."


:rofl: :deadhorse:

People can get all this from secular groups, clubs and organisations. Fact is +Conry, you couldn't sell water to a fish.

It's quite sad when a bishop of the Church has no option but sell the Novus Ordo on earthly comforts rather than spiritual benefits.
We all need friendship with people with whom we share our faith. Crossing the Threshold is not specifically about Ordinary Form of the Mass. It is for all Catholics who have given up Mass attendance.

It does help if a person, nervously returning, is made welcome and goes home with a sense of belonging, particularly if that person stayed away due to some past hurt or perceived or actual rejection.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Penfold
Tuesday, 15. November 2011, 06:49
Rose of York
Tuesday, 15. November 2011, 03:09
Has anybody else heard about this? I knew nothing until a few minutes ago when I received my daily email from Catholic World News. There is no mention of it on The Universe or Catholic Herald websites.

I have heard of Crossing the Threshold but have had no details of the tour. Since the November dates have already past this would appear to be a triumph of incompetence on the part of the organisation who are being paid to assist the Church with its very important role of Evangalision,
Hopefully this will be of some assistance to you, Penfold.

http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=19309

I share your opinion about the incompetence. I only found links to the materials and sites because I receive a daily email from Independent Catholic News, which is very efficient indeed.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

I think initiatives like this must be given a chance and their plans will never please all of us. That said, I admit to being sceptical about its chances. I fear we may have entered a genuinely post-religious period in Europe. I know I should have more faith than that but I think some historical movements are irresistible. Nor do I think we should mistake the enthusiasm for spiritual enlightenment with religious practice--the young people who seek the former are very often impatient or even intolerant of religious doctrine and ritual.

In Catholicism, I think we have a basic problem here in the West in addition to this and one which is far more off-putting than the crime of sexual abuse which I think most lapsed Catholics recognise as an aberration by individuals albeit a disturbingly wide-spread and vile one. The major problem is our approach to artificial birth control. The Church has a contradiction--I would say a lie--at the heart of its doctrine. The central Church teaching is clear and very much anti. In practice, this is ignored by the people and by the vast majority of the clergy. Such contradiction at the heart of such a vital policy puts off the lapsed and potential new recruits.

John
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Let us not just concentrate on the young people who stopped going to Mass when they grew up. Now that life expectancy is higher than previously, and most people remain active for many years following retirement it is hardly unusual for them to sell the family home, move to something smaller, and move to a pleasant area of their choice. We did that, it can be a bit scary having to put down new roots, will there be a welcome and real friendship from new neighbours, members of local clubs and societies, and the new parish?

A concerted effort needs to be made, not only to include these people and invite them to an "old folks Christmas dinner", then forget about them. They must not be cold shouldered, unseen and unheard. Include them, ask about their experiences, gifts, talents. They want to give and well as receive. It is no good saying "you come here for God, not people." Jesus told us to welcome strangers. Hurt the grandparents, that will anger the younger members of the family, it could drive them away.

I suggest any initiative to get people back to church should include an invitation with contact phone number to introduce themselves and talk over what involvement they would welcome in the parish. Some might just want to come to Mass. Others may have a need for personal friendship with persons in their church community.

Let us avoid being do-gooders who do good so we can feel good.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
James
James
John Sweeney
Thursday, 17. November 2011, 11:55
In Catholicism, I think we have a basic problem here in the West in addition to this and one which is far more off-putting than the crime of sexual abuse which I think most lapsed Catholics recognise as an aberration by individuals albeit a disturbingly wide-spread and vile one. The major problem is our approach to artificial birth control. The Church has a contradiction--I would say a lie--at the heart of its doctrine. The central Church teaching is clear and very much anti. In practice, this is ignored by the people and by the vast majority of the clergy. Such contradiction at the heart of such a vital policy puts off the lapsed and potential new recruits.

John
Also, I wonder haw many of these people and families are living in "sin" which the Church cannot reconcile itself with at the end of the day.
So why bother these folk think !!.
Many may be divorced and have other families ,although the divorce is not recognised by the Church.
They will still label themselves "Catholic"
So why be hypocritical and try and get people in that situation to go to Mass when the Church knows it will not allow them to receive Communion in their state.?
It is like salt in a wound to offer them "a market" which cannot be delivered surely.

Artifiicial birth control, as mentioned by John, is not far behind,

Perhaps the people not going are less hypocritical.
Why pretend something is happening when it is not in essence - more bums on pews to no purpose or communion.?

Or, am I b eing too cynical ?

Edited by James, Monday, 21. November 2011, 22:48.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Emee
Member Avatar

People receive graces just by attending Mass, so even if the Church says a person is ineligible for Holy Communion they can still receive graces just by attending and by fulfiling their Sunday and Holy Day obligations.

They will also benefit from hearing the Word proclaimed and being present for the Consecration when they are in Christ's Presence. That in itself is wonderful. :)

Plus they can always go up for a Priestly Blessing at Holy Communion.

However, I do not mean to sound patronising and can appreciate the deep anguish and disappointment felt. Nevertheless it is written that we will all (God Willing) glow by varying degrees of glory: some like the sun and some like the moon and some like the stars, but we will all be in Christ's Presence all the same.

If I ever found myself in a position whereby I was ineligible to receive Holy Communion I would like to think I would still continue to attend Mass for the above reasons - but, as I say, having experienced the odd occasion when I did not feel it was right for me to receive Holy Communion, I can imagine how someone must feel if this was their long term situation.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Penfold
Member Avatar

James
Monday, 21. November 2011, 22:43
Many may be divorced and have other families ,although the divorce is not recognised by the Church.
They will still label themselves "Catholic"
So why be hypocritical and try and get people in that situation to go to Mass when the Church knows it will not allow them to receive Communion in their state.?
It is like salt in a wound to offer them "a market" which cannot be delivered surely.

Artifiicial birth control, as mentioned by John, is not far behind,

Perhaps the people not going are less hypocritical.
Why pretend something is happening when it is not in essence - more bums on pews to no purpose or communion.?

Or, am I b eing too cynical ?

Some may actually be able to obtain an annulment from their first union but because of various factors do not know that this option is available. Reconciliation has to play a part in any outreach and with the greater number of tribunrals today and the greater number of people, many of them laity in early retirement, trained to act as notaries who can gather the evidence for the tribunerals the possibility of bringing people back into full communion is high.
However crossing the threshold suggests entering people’s homes and reaching out. In this regard I favour local prayer groups and House Masses. Each area/district/village in the parish should have at least one family to act as a focal point for parish information and there are some who may be restricted in their ability to get into church who could still provide a venue for a prayer group or bible study. If the Priest and deacons work with these parishioners and parish funding is made available a course of study could be run along the lines of the Lent groups which were run through local Radio by the BBC.
However none of these activities are new and what disappoints me is the lack of enthusiasm by some priests to get out and act as missionaries, back to OSB's thread on Maintenance or Mission.
Any way I shall observe with interest the ideas and suggestions that appear in either this thread or the one on mission or maintenance. Maintenance may not bring in the new generation but mission may antagonise the existing congregations, how to encourage all to come aboard and become missionaries? Ideas that will suggest an answer to that question would be most welcome.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OsullivanB

emee
 
having experienced the odd occasion when I did not feel it was right for me to receive Holy Communion, I can imagine how someone must feel if this was their long term situation.
Being excluded from Holy Communion, I daresay they feel excommunicated.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General Catholic Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply