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What should we call the priest?
Topic Started: Thursday, 3. November 2011, 18:41 (578 Views)
Rose of York
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Today a pleasant companionable man called at my house, in response to a request, to collect some goods we were donating to the food bank. When he telephoned he introduced himself as David. We have had an email from him, signed off as David, thanking us and saying it was a pleasure to meet us. I felt comfortable and relaxed chatting to him. This guy came across as a person, an equal, albeit with a particular calling. He is the pastor of a local independent church.

It set me thinking, what is best, to address the priest by his first name (he is a person) or by a title, Father, Canon, Monsignor, My Lord, Your Grace, Your Eminence? I cannot imagine myself addressing one certain priest whom I do respect as Joseph or as Benedict.
Keep the Faith!

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Penfold
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Rose of York
Thursday, 3. November 2011, 18:41
I cannot imagine myself addressing one certain priest whom I do respect as Joseph or as Benedict.
And there in lies the problem.
I and many of my collegues would prefer to be called by our Christian names but it is the laity who invariably insit on prefix it with the title Fr. Even on this forum yourself and others called me Fr Penfold which was absurd. The point I am making is that the titles issue is not the fault of the priest in most cases it is the laity who cling to them....now that is called setting the cat among the pidgens... (any artist got an apropriate emoticon) :tc:


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Gerard

I think there is much truth in that. The majority of laity feel the need for the title. But as one who does not use it I will say that I get funny looks from priests quite often.

My objection to the title is the submissiveness associated with it, and you can actually see it in practice. I think in the past this was expected on both sides. Even today there are those who would argue in favour of this. Perhaps in this thead?

What really drives me up the wall are phrases like "Father says ...." or "What does Father say about it..." (I tend to hear that with a capital F).

I use their christian names.

I have less problem with Bishop - it just does not have the same connotations. But then I dont use that title when talking with bishops either.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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The priest takes it for granted he can address me by my Christian name. Most laity would consider it an impertinence if I were to say "I would prefer it if you would address me as Mrs York or alternatively, Madam." They would ask "Who do you think you are, talking to a priest like that?" They would react the same way if the priest addressed me as Rose and I responded with "Yes, Fred?". :rofl:

I do call priests Father, old habits die hard.
Keep the Faith!

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PJD

"I do call priests Father, old habits die hard."

Same here Rose. I only use the title Father whatever the rank except if I was addressing His Holiness. As for the laity using a priest's Christian name - cannot stand it - why dunno exactly but probably because I think it is disrespectful - too much of one pal to another.

PJD
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Rose of York
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I show the priest respect even if I am not keen on him. In return I expect him to treat me with respect. By respect I do not mean grovelling or subservient, just being nice and polite. Mind you, whether or not the man is a priest, I should take the same attitude.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

Rose of York
Thursday, 3. November 2011, 20:10
The priest takes it for granted he can address me by my Christian name.

Exactly, so whats good enogh for one adult in the conversation should be good enough for the other one also. I do, actually, have a title. Should a priest ever address my by my title I will address him by his. I think that may have been the norm in Victoruan times.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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PJD
Thursday, 3. November 2011, 20:32
"I do call priests Father, old habits die hard."

Same here Rose. I only use the title Father whatever the rank except if I was addressing His Holiness. As for the laity using a priest's Christian name - cannot stand it - why dunno exactly but probably because I think it is disrespectful - too much of one pal to another.

PJD
What about the priest who uses parishioners' first names, irrespective of their age, or ascertaining whether that is their choice? Doesn't that give the impression the priest is everybody's pal?

In the unlikely event of any bishop correcting me for addressing him as Bishop, not "My Lord" or "Your Grace" Rose will put on her snooty voice and snobby accent reserved for such occasions and say haughtily "Kindly address me as Madam, My Lord". That will put us on an equal footing.
Keep the Faith!

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Penfold
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"Call me Madam" are you sure Rose. :yahoo:

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Emee
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My answer to the title of this thread is in the Fatima thread, where I was writing about the readings of the day for last weekend.

The use of the address "Father", I understand, is a fairly recent introduction in the Church...
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Rose of York
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Penfold
Thursday, 3. November 2011, 22:08
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"Call me Madam" are you sure Rose. :yahoo:

Here you are

Just for you

You asked for that, Dad.

:rofl:
Keep the Faith!

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Derekap
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This is not just a problem in The Catholic Church. I hail from the days when even Hitler was referred to as Herr Hitler in the BBC news. People senior in rank were Sir, Doctor, (but a consultant becomes Mr!!!) etc etc. Customers and clients and fellow staff were all referred to as Mr or Mrs Surname. Even in my 11+ council school we were all addressed by the surname only and pupils referred to the teachers as Sir or Mr, Mrs or Miss Surname. (*) When I retired from my work the change to more informality was creeping in. Just a few days ago I had to sign something in a bank. The lady had heard my wife naturally referring to me as 'Derek'. She turned to me and said: "Would you sign here Derek". Firstly some years ago it would have been hard to find a women employee in bank (now it is rare to find a man employee) and secondly calling me Derek would probably have meant him/her being shown the door. It is not so long go all Catholic priests were Father (or whatever rank or title) Surname. We probably never sometimes knew his Christian Name now we probably don't know his surname! Unless he was a close relation or had been a close friend from before his study and ordination I would find it hard to address a priest by his known Christian Name only. Not that I use the title Father too often (I hope). I might be tempted to call Penfold 'Pen' in this forum!

(*) Among we pupils we did of course use nicknames. I was Apple or Apples or Apps then it evolved into Yapps - the latter of which even now some may consider very appropriate.
Derekap
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Rose of York
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Emee
Thursday, 3. November 2011, 22:12
The use of the address "Father", I understand, is a fairly recent introduction in the Church...
I was told, by a priest who now revels in his title of Monsignor, that the priest is addressed as Father because he is father of the family. That is nonsense in a parish that has, say, three priests. Which is the father, the old man, retired, no longer able to minister, the young 'un still wet behind the ears or the one in his fifties. One could ask, is the parish a one parent family with a domineering Dad who has favourite children? Who are the family of the theologian, the bishop's secretary or any other priest who is not involved in any community consisting mainly of laity?

Calling a very young priest Father does not worry me, but I cannot think of him in a fatherly role to me, if I am nearly old enough to be his grandmother. Advisory, yes. Paternal, no.

I think it would be best if at least the middle aged and older people were to address priests by their Christian names, but if I start I will incur wrath from some. For goodness sake, these men might like to just chat sometimes about any old thing, not just parish affairs.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Derekap
Thursday, 3. November 2011, 22:44
It is not so long go all Catholic priests were Father (or whatever rank or title) Surname. We probably never sometimes knew his Christian Name now we probably don't know his surname! Unless he was a close relation or had been a close friend from before his study and ordination I would find it hard to address a priest by his known Christian Name only.
My auntie used to call two of her sons Father John and Father Paul, whether she was talking to or about them. She would say "would you a glass if beer with your Dad, Father" to her own son when he was in his twenties. As soon either son was ordained to the diaconate, when they came home for their holiday she loved parading them down the street wearing their black suits and Roman collars. I would not have gone to confession to a son who became a priest. Auntie M did. I loved that woman, but I did feel she went over the top with her deference to her sons' priesthood.
Keep the Faith!

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Angus Toanimo
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As a kid, I was brought up to refer to adults that were not relatives as Mr or Mrs So-and-so, even if they were friends of the family. Teachers at my childrens' school never call me by my Christian name. As for priests, I would never dream of calling one by his Christian name, even if I know him personally. It's a respect thing, and even if a priest insists you call him "Ted" instead of "Father" or "Fr Ted", it shows that priest you have manners and a certain respect for him. And I certainly think that if I were stood in the coffee hall after a Trad Mass and called a priest by his first name only, there'd probably be a few jaws hitting the floor as well as dropped crockery.
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