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Was Jesus a Jew?; What did this word mean in the first century AD?
Topic Started: Tuesday, 23. August 2011, 00:25 (1,419 Views)
PJD

"What they rejected was an afterlife or resurrection from the dead."

That's as I understand it. Why they rejected the afterlife I just cannot make sense of. Nevertheless any remaining at the Second Coming will certainly get a shock the instant it occurs.

PJD
Edited by PJD, Tuesday, 18. October 2011, 17:47.
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OsullivanB

Perhaps they did not believe in the afterlife because it is not found in the Torah - or all that much in the OT at all.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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The Searcher

The fact that the rise in power of factions Pharisaic, Essenian, and Sadduccean, only a few hundred years before Christ shows us that these groups became assertive, in fact the Temple issues were always about power anyway.

So to keep the topic on topic, like zadok; Christ felt that the scriptures were absent in the social life of the Jews, there is no need to go into what Christ thought of the situation his statements bind us to realize that he was the Messsiah (a super jew if you like) and his words were LIFE to the Jews. He described a relationship that could be realized with The Allmighty (Father) a term and idea which pious Jews would not tolerate, but whatever they did to Christ it did not prevent him being a Jew, who like zadok could start a new movement.

No one can say otherwise because we have the lineage of Jesus which establishes that fact, neither would Christ renounce his lineage, because he had appointed the members to it. (he states this by his assertion Before Abraham I AM )

I think what i am saying is that the LOVE of God is what makes a man a Jew, his religious affiliation is secondary, can anyone identify with that.

As I leave the radio is playing The Rolling Stones, and I hear a few bars saying "he can't be a man cause don't smoke tha same cigarettes as me"

:smoker:


The Searcher
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The Searcher

OsullivanB
Tuesday, 18. October 2011, 18:33
Perhaps they did not believe in the afterlife because it is not found in the Torah - or all that much in the OT at all.
OSB

What does it say in Ezekiel about the Dry Bones.
The Searcher
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Gerard

Thats still not much, Searcher.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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OsullivanB

As far as I know the Sadducees were learned seekers after the truth as found in Scripture. They were not heretics.

Aslo, as I understand it (which may not be much) Judaism today has little to say about the afterlife save that we should trust to the goodness of God when we die. At least, that's the gist of what I heard the Chief Rabbi say on television.

Observant Jews are observant because that's what God told them to be and do, not because of the payoff in the afterlife.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Gerard

Todays Judaism is largely derived from the Pharisees.
Hence I would have expected them to believe in the resurrection.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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The Searcher

OsullivanB
Tuesday, 18. October 2011, 19:17
As far as I know the Sadducees were learned seekers after the truth as found in Scripture. They were not heretics.

Aslo, as I understand it (which may not be much) Judaism today has little to say about the afterlife save that we should trust to the goodness of God when we die. At least, that's the gist of what I heard the Chief Rabbi say on television.

Observant Jews are observant because that's what God told them to be and do, not because of the payoff in the afterlife.
OSb and Gerry

Remember that Herod thought jesus was John The Baptist resurrected, and there are many instances where the after life was believed in.



Anyway its off topic :wh:


The Searcher
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Deacon Robert
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OK, It is not within my jurisdiction to teach outside of my Diocese, but I will say that Gerry is correct in his statement that today's Rabbinic Judiaism is desended from the Pharasees. As to there only being three sects of Judiaism, wrong, there was a fourth! For OSB, who I respect for his willingness to research a topic, he is correct in part. The Reformed branch is as he says. The Orthodox and the Hassids have differenting views of after life and ressurrection. The reformed, if you believe my Orth Rabbi friend, have become too secular. Very much like our Christmas and Easter Catholics.
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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OsullivanB

The Chief Rabbi that I referred to is Orthodox not Reform.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Deacon Robert
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Looks like they differ among themselves :wh:
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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OsullivanB

Deacon Robert
Tuesday, 18. October 2011, 22:34
Looks like they differ among themselves :wh:
No clearer proof of Catholicism's closeness to Judaism need be sought.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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The Searcher

OsullivanB
Tuesday, 18. October 2011, 23:20
Deacon Robert
Tuesday, 18. October 2011, 22:34
Looks like they differ among themselves :wh:
No clearer proof of Catholicism's closeness to Judaism need be sought.
OSB

I have said all along in this thread that revelation amongst the Jews has been very
e .. l ....a ...s ...t ..i ...c

Christianity has through an imperial bigotry rejected Judaism so that in an ocean of faith there is islands dominated by people who have been faithful to their own revelation, but it is very true of NED to say that we have everything in common with this loving GOD.

What Scripture says that the relations we have with God makes us Jews, and despite our differences we have a cohesion [glue] this is Christ.

I would like to post a special attachment which is an advert posted in The Times in the 1930's, the circumstances of this advert was dictated by the political situation at the time, and a special meeting in London with finance ministers of what would be described as the world powers at the time; and the observation that from the beginnining of the first world wars armistice, a continuous stream of Jews left Europe for Palestine, the originators of the advert put the political situation and the Spiritual implications together and more that tentatively put forward the case that Christ second coming was IMMINENT.

Whilst being wrong about the TIME I am in full admiration for the faith of the organisers because they reached out in an evangelical and ecumenical fsshion and they pit forth a completely rational scriptural argument.

I am not a member of this organisation and i do not know anything of it except for this historical incident in 1933
Attached to this post:
Attachments: WrapPDF_contentSet_LT_recordID_0FFO_1933_JUN24_007_F.pdf (777.12 KB)
Attachments: IS_IT_THE_END_OF_THE_OLD_OR_THE_BEGINNING_OF_THE_NEW_ERA_FOR_THE_WORLD.doc (132.5 KB)
Edited by The Searcher, Wednesday, 19. October 2011, 23:24.
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Ned

The Searcher
Tuesday, 18. October 2011, 02:51
... Therefore are we in a period of history where Ezekiel is relevant ...
And was there ever a time when it wasn't?

And may not every other books of the Bible also be relevant to us?

When God speaks to us through the Bible He speaks to us as individuals. The message that He has for you in your particular circumstances at this time may not be in every respect the particular message that He has for me.

Regards

Ned
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Gerard

Quote:
 
What Scripture says that the relations we have with God makes us Jews


Define Jew.

Gerry
Edited by Gerard, Wednesday, 19. October 2011, 10:29.
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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