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Pope Benedict: Jews not to blame for death of Jesus
Topic Started: Saturday, 5. March 2011, 23:34 (1,501 Views)
tomais

/Gypsies
There is a story that the Gypsies ,because of their expertise in metal work,the Gypsies who mad the nails for jesus Christs Crucifixion.
And in main land Europe,the UK ies Britain;only Scotland did not bar / exclude jews via a legal ruling.
Why I wonder!
In England jews were incarcerated and burnt
As to anti semitism amongstCcatholics-I have heard it-I hear it now!
There is so much mix twixt history mythologyit permiates all of our live.
Good comment on five races-I liked that.
Races? Look up the Leaky's-
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Rose of York
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tomais
Saturday, 1. September 2012, 16:21
As to anti semitism amongstCcatholics-I have heard it-I hear it now!
That depends upon where people live. If there is a Jewish quarter, there will be some anti semitism. Where there are muslims there is some Islamophobia. The people who used to hate the Irish are now leaving them alone, because they have found new targets.
Keep the Faith!

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Penfold
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It should be noted that the Arabs are also Semites. It is a mistake often made that religion and race are confused. Not all Jews are Semites in fact the majority have no Biological affinity with Israel, their true origins being being among the Khazars in the 8th century in what is now Southern Russia the Ukraine and Kazakhstan, ironically Kazakhstan today has over 70% Muslim Population.
Ignorance and stupidity are often the cause of misguided religious bigotry and genocide. I have never encountered Anti-Jewish tendencies but as a child in Ireland I was acutely aware of the latent hostility to Protestants though I also witnessed great cooperation and understanding. What is important is that though we will never agree on certain points we can work together on many projects that we have in common. Be it With Jew, Muslim, Protestant or any other faith. Faith and nationality are not the same. The sadness is to many have killed and been killed trying to prove the opposite.
Edited by Penfold, Saturday, 1. September 2012, 18:53.
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Ned

Rose of York
Saturday, 1. September 2012, 18:19
... depends upon where people live. If there is a Jewish quarter, there will be some anti semitism ...
I'm not sure about that, Rose.

From what I've seen of it many anti-semites don't know any Jews.

And I think I read of a survey, many years ago, which had found that this was generally the case.

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pete

I do not wish to be called anti-Semitist but Jesus made many enemies amongst his own Jewish people, particularly between the Chief Priests and the Pharisees. Caiaphas detested Jesus and tried so hard to outsmart and trick him into various political and religious traps. Even a great many of Jesus’ followers abandoned him according to St John, and returned no more; only a few days before his crucifixion. After all Jesus did say some outrageous things to his human followers which they were not capable of understanding; just as we are unable to comprehend today. The final straw that gave Caiaphas the Chief priests and their community the perfect opportunity to arrest Jesus was when according to Jewish law Jesus blasphemed by announcing that he was God, a capital offence, punishable by death in Jewish law.
To say the Jews were not responsible for Our Lords death; then who was accountable? Certainly not the Romans, even King Herod was not interested in having Jesus put to death. The answer is the Chief Priests and the Pharisees. Considering that Jesus’s popularity grew more after his death than whilst he was still living and his few followers were very much in the minority and lacked support from the majority of Jews.
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Ned

pete
Sunday, 2. September 2012, 01:10
I do not wish to be called anti-Semitist but ...
Hi Pete,

You've got the wrong end of the stick here - on several issues.

But I must get to bed. I'll try to get back to you tomorrow.

Regards

Ned

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Rose of York
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pete
Sunday, 2. September 2012, 01:10
To say the Jews were not responsible for Our Lords death; then who was accountable?
Just a few Jews were responsible. We don't blame all the Germans for atrocities committed by Adolf Hitler, or all English people for what Elizabeth I did to priests, and we cannot blame all Jews for killing Jesus. They did not have a referendum, did they? Those who did not live in Jerusalem or nearby would not have known what was happening that day, therefore bore no responsibility for it. A number of people in the crowd shouted for Barabbas to be saved and Jesus killed. They were not ALL the Jews, they were the mob, possibly there for the spectacle.

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26 As they were leading him away they seized on a man, Simon from Cyrene, who was coming in from the country, and made him shoulder the cross and carry it behind Jesus.

27 Large numbers of people followed him, and women too, who mourned and lamented for him.

28 But Jesus turned to them and said, 'Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep rather for yourselves and for your children.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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pete
Sunday, 2. September 2012, 01:10
To say the Jews were not responsible for Our Lords death; then who was accountable?
Every sinner who ever lived, and every sinner not yet born. Anti-semites who blame the Jews might be transferring blame onto the Jews, thinking that relieves them of their own guilt.
Keep the Faith!

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pete

John 11:47-54 "Then the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and said, "What shall we do? For this Man works many signs. If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation." And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish." Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad. Then, from that day on, they plotted to put Him to death."
Caiaphas, who’s name means "searcher" was appointed high priest (after Simon ben Camith) by the procurator Valerius Gratus, under Tiberius, 18 A.D.. He continued in office from A.D. 26 to 37, when the proconsul Vitellius deposed him. He was the president of the Jewish council (Sanhedrim) which condemned the Lord Jesus to death, Caiaphas declaring Him guilty of blasphemy.
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Rose of York
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Pete the passage you quoted, John 11: 47-54, proves that "The Jews" (i.e. Jews in general, the majority of them) were not responsible for the death of Jesus. The decision was made by a small number of Jews, the pharisees and high priests meeting in Council. No Jew alive today had anything to do with it, and that shows what nonsense it is for anybody to blame the whole Jewish race.

We might as well say "The English" and "The Americans" are to blame for the import of slaves from Africa. All I know is it was not done by you or by me.
Keep the Faith!

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paul

Rose I have just read this topic and do not understand your comment about prison chaplins being perfidious. I was a prison chaplain for three years. Do you consider me perfidious?
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Penfold
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Charlie, sorry "Prison Chaplin" :)

paul
Sunday, 2. September 2012, 20:14
Rose I have just read this topic and do not understand your comment about prison chaplins being perfidious. I was a prison chaplain for three years. Do you consider me perfidious?
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If there were no perfidious Catholics all the prison chaplains would be redundant.
Rose did not say the chaplains were perfidious.
If people were true to the teaching of Christ then their would be no criminals hence no need for prison chaplains. But because people betray their faith and the teaching of Christ we do need Chaplains.
Edited by Penfold, Sunday, 2. September 2012, 20:36.
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Rose of York
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paul
Sunday, 2. September 2012, 20:14
Rose I have just read this topic and do not understand your comment about prison chaplins being perfidious. I was a prison chaplain for three years. Do you consider me perfidious?
If there were no perfidious Catholics there would be no Catholics in prison, therefore there would no point in having a post of Catholic chaplain in a prison.

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Do you consider me perfidious?


How would I know? I have never thought about it.

Perfidious is defined as

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the quality or state of being faithless or disloyal : treachery


Anyway my point was, there are no doubt some perfidious (i.e. faithless, disloyal, treacherous) folk in any large group of people, including Christians, but any person claiming the Jews as a race are perfidious is talking absolute garbage. People of all races and faiths display varying degrees of morality.
Keep the Faith!

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Derekap
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There was as time when we were asked to pray for the 'Perfidious Jews' - on Good Friday I think. I used to cringe everytime the description was mentioned. Even then I used to think it was 'anti-semetic'.

I used to work in a city that some called 'The Holy City' because of the number of Jews who originated from Russia at the beginning of the 20th Century.
Some clients were difficult but when someone pointed out that it was in their nature to, in a roundabout way, get the cheapest prices I began to understand and be more patient. A regular client, who was a stickler for observing sunset on Friday evenings was a rabbi who specialised in Jewish Law but he was a very pleasant friendly person.
Derekap
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Penfold
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It was Pope John XIII who had the term, perfidious Jew removed from the traditional Good Friday prayers. It had been part of the prayers for centuries and it referred to a passage in St Paul's 2 letter to the Corinthians referring to the faithlessness of the Jews to adhere to the covenant with God formed in the Desert in the time of Moses. The misinterpretation that this referred to the the killing of Jesus as an act of treachery was something that should never have been allowed to continue.
50 years after the liturgy was changed we are still having this conversation.
Edited by Penfold, Sunday, 2. September 2012, 22:43.
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