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Theologians
Topic Started: Sunday, 17. January 2010, 01:59 (635 Views)
Rose of York
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Ned
Saturday, 13. February 2010, 19:08
There must be a suitable 'seminaries' thread already here. Can anyone remember which it is, please?
I cannot find one, and do not remember having one. Would somebody like to set on up?
Keep the Faith!

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pete

Henri Cardinal de Lubac SJ, one of the most influential Catholic theologians of the 20th century said:-
We have all witnessed with alarm many who profess to be Catholics disavowing the Church’s teaching authority, particularly that of the Pope and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, dismissing apostolic traditions and the doctrines of the Fathers, and giving the place of honour to the fashionable opinions of society

How true this is
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Ned

:wacko:
And here's another of the 20th Century's most influential theologians (probably THE most influential) :

Father Karl Rahner SJ (1904 – 1984) is the theologian who thought up the idea of the ‘Anonymous Christian’.

He said that embraced Buddhists, various other non-Christians and even atheists who are conscientious, upright and caring.

He said that “Some kind of faith in God is basically there, whether they know it or not”.

“They are a part of a ”Christianity that does not call itself Christianity ... ‘pagans’ who have received grace, but who are not aware of it.”

This concept was adopted by the Church at the Second Vatican Council, and in Lumen Gentium. It threw out the old idea that “outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation”; and so it opened the door to ecumenism and ‘multi-faith ecumenism’.

Regards

Ned
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Gerard

Quote:
 
Father Karl Rahner SJ (1904 – 1984) is the theologian who thought up the idea of the ‘Anonymous Christian’.


Err, no, that would be St Paul (at least in NT times)

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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PJD

Also Gerry - ? Rahner's verbal slant on the doctrine of Baptism by Desire ? thus not new.

PJD
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Joseph

Ned
Monday, 1. March 2010, 02:13
Father Karl Rahner SJ
 
(1904 – 1984“They are a part of a ”Christianity that does not call itself Christianity ... ‘pagans’ who have received grace, but who are not aware of it.”...

Hmm! And there I was thinking that all Christians believed in Christ and tried to follow His teaching...

'just shows what little I know (and maybe my pre-V2 Catechesis was deficient after all?)

Joseph
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PJD

There are different kinds of grace Joseph; which kind was Rahner referring to?

For example they couldn't be receiving Sacrament Graces because they don't receive the Sacraments.

PJD
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Joseph

In my book they can't be Christians in this world if they don't believe in and try to follow Christ - QED in my humble opinion and to my simple mind, whatever Rahner claimed.

Contemplating different kinds of grace is too technical for me I'm afraid PJD - it can be difficult enough coping with the Teachings of the Church without adding more complications. :bl:

Maybe Rahner was referring to the possibility of those he refers to becoming Christians when they meet Christ beyond the grave, I don't know.

Joseph
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PJD

"Contemplating different kinds of grace is too technical for me I'm afraid PJD - it can be difficult enough coping with the Teachings of the Church without adding more complications."

The CCC lays it out quite simply and clearly Joseph. But I will accept that Rahner didn't.

PJD
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PJD

Just brought this to the fore in simple mode.

Take for example Gerry's footnote:

"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998)."

Any comment?

PJD
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Rose of York
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PJD
Thursday, 25. March 2010, 20:27
Just brought this to the fore in simple mode.

Take for example Gerry's footnote:

"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998)."

Any comment?

PJD
First, I had to find a definition of quasi

–adjective
resembling; seeming; virtual

charismatic is defined as

adjective charming, appealing, attractive, influential, magnetic, enticing, alluring

All I can say is, the Church does need to act like a magnet, to reach out, to attract so it does need to be charismatic.

As for institutional, no large organisation can function in wordly matters without some ladder of authority, and senior people being in charge of departments. I personally could manage without the business of clergy of differing status being distinguishable by the colour of the braid and buttons on their cassocks and some being entitled to wear black patent leather slippers with silver buckles, even when they're dead. I can do without priests being occupied personally managing finances when large areas in all continents have people who have difficulty getting priests to attend at deathbeds, while "special" Masses have twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred priests processing according to rank when I know the high point of any Mass is the real presence of THE priest, Jesus Christ, Lord and Saviour. After Mass, a good lunch then back to the office.

When it comes to teaching and evengelisaton I wish the institution would acknowledge that we who do not have degrees in theology are morally entitled to have some documentation that explains things in easily understood language. We could read, digest and explain to people who want to know what makes Catholicism different from other denominations.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

In the context used, I would suggest that

quasi = to all intents and purposes or essentially or more-or-less

charismatic = gifted (by The Holy Spirit)

Gerry
Edited by Gerard, Thursday, 25. March 2010, 21:15.
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Gerard

For example:

Peter represents the institutional and Paul the charismatic.

Alternatively

Peter represents the institutional and Mary the charismatic.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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Gerard
Thursday, 25. March 2010, 21:11
In the context used, I would suggest that

quasi = almost completely or essentially or more-or-less

charismatic = gifted (by The Holy Spirit)

Gerry
Yes, Gerry, that is the correct definition when we speak of the Church.

"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998)."

Are the institutional and charismatic aspects almost completely or essentially or more-or-less coessential to the Church's constitution?

For the first forty years of my life I hardly heard any mention of the Holy Spirit, apart from my confirmation instruction at school in teenage years. There are plenty of visible signs of the institution, just turn on the TV when a senior cleric is appointed, elected, dies, makes a speech or gets into a spot of bother.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

Quote:
 
Are the institutional and charismatic aspects almost completely or essentially or more-or-less coessential to the Church's constitution?


Personally, I would simply omit the quasi:

The institutional and charismatic aspects are coessential to the Church's constitution

Gerry

"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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