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Suitable ecclesiastical dress
Topic Started: Thursday, 10. February 2011, 21:50 (1,995 Views)
christyemily

Penfold2,
the "Dog Collar" as you put it, symbolizes in my mind, the purity of the vocation, where as the black symbolizes the vocation of priesthood.
Edited by christyemily, Friday, 11. February 2011, 21:05.
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Rose of York
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christyemily
Friday, 11. February 2011, 21:05
Penfold2,
the "Dog Collar" as you put it, symbolizes in my mind, the purity of the vocation, where as the black symbolizes the vocation of priesthood.
What is the basis for that belief? It is the first I have heard of such symbolism.

A standard collar can be white, so the symbolism is not in the colour. It must be the shape! Does a collar encircling the neck or a short piece of plastic or starched cloth tucked under the shirt collar, showing only a couple of inches, symbolise purity? Marriage lived in faithfulness to the spouse is a pure vocation, so is a choice to live a single celibate lay life. How about all who live pure lives wearing "dog collars"?

What is the connection between black and priesthood? The only symbolism I know of connected with that colour is death.
Keep the Faith!

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Penfold
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christyemily
Friday, 11. February 2011, 21:05
Penfold2,
the "Dog Collar" as you put it, symbolizes in my mind, the purity of the vocation, where as the black symbolizes the vocation of priesthood.
An interesting idea but since there is no symbolism in the "Dog Collar" other than it was adopted as walking out dress by Roman Catholic Clergy in the 19th century. having borrowed the fashion from the protestants, A the Church of Scotland minister, the Rev. Dr. Donald McLeod, invented the neck-band shirt style. Protestant clergy had been wearing white preaching bands for quite some time; McLeod combined them with the detachable collar that was in use at the time.
As for the term "Dog Collar" it has been a long accepted colloquial title for the clerical collar. It interesting how people attach sacred significance to things that are not even officially clerical dress, the correct clerical dress is the cassock for diocesan clergy. A suit and clerical collar are just more practical and became fashionable, today the clerical collar is out of fashion. Oh an as for the white symbolising purity I suggest you check out a few, most priests make their own by cutting up a washing up bottle or in my case a salt container, since my favourite washing up liquid comes in a clear plastic bottle.

I think that it is correct for priests to wear something that is recognisable as a mark of their priesthood, for some of the reasons given by others in this thread. I have always worn clerical dress when visiting hospitals and I have when travelling been to pubs in clerical dress to enjoy a pub meal. What saddens me is the fact that I was once very proud to wear my clerical collar in the street but thanks in part to the misconduct of some of my colleagues it is no longer recognised by many as a symbol of anything other than a breed of clergy that most people wish to be disassociated with. It was abused by some who would wear it not a a symbol of their priesthood but as a mark of their authority, which some abused. I actually find the clerical collar is now more off putting than welcoming and is licker to cause people to turn away when they see someone wearing it than come over and talk positively. It is sad and I think a lapel pin, badge or other symbol could be more effective. The cassock is an impractical garment for everyday wear but on Sundays, high-days and holy-days then we should put on our best formal wear but from Monday-Friday a more practical form of dress is required.
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Penfold
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Rose of York
Friday, 11. February 2011, 22:17

What is the connection between black and priesthood? The only symbolism I know of connected with that colour is death.
Black is cheap and can be made easily from any cloth.
The Bishops traditional colour, green, was expensive and as for purple and scarlet these were always considered luxurious. In this day and age with cheep chemical dyes we tend to forget the practical origins of things. The only remnant of the bishops old colour can now be seen in the cord for their pectoral cross, green thread is woven into the gold. I am not sufficiently clued into why bishops swapped to purple as the norm or when but for those who are interested I am sure it will provide an interesting evening investigating through a search of encyclopaedias and Google.
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Rose of York
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Penfold2
Friday, 11. February 2011, 22:32
Oh an as for the white symbolising purity I suggest you check out a few, most priests make their own by cutting up a washing up bottle or in my case a salt container, since my favourite washing up liquid comes in a clear plastic bottle.

Washing up liquid and salt are associated with cleanliness, i.e. purity so I suggest those methods be made compulsory under Canon Law. :rofl:
Quote:
 
I have always worn clerical dress when visiting hospitals and I have when travelling been to pubs in clerical dress to enjoy a pub meal.

Good. That demonstrates to people who have had little or no contact with clergy of any denomination, that you do live on Planet Earth and enjoy the things most of us enjoy.
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I think a lapel pin, badge or other symbol could be more effective.
Any suggestions for the size and design? A simple cross would not in my opinion, suffice. It is commonly worn by Christians of all denominations.
Quote:
 
The cassock is an impractical garment for everyday wear but on Sundays, high-days and holy-days then we should put on our best formal wear but from Monday-Friday a more practical form of dress is required.
It would not be the most suitable wear for driving. In heavy rain it would end up soaking wet.
Keep the Faith!

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Deacon Robert
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This is the lapel pin miost of us in Paterson diocese wear:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=deacon+cross&view=detail&id=3C61C8CB11B9CCED6B0B91FD95993739BB4862D8&FORM=IGRE6

The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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Anne-Marie

Rose of York
Friday, 11. February 2011, 22:17
What is the connection between black and priesthood? The only symbolism I know of connected with that colour is death.
You obviously be white woman.
Such colour symblism is deeply racist to the black man, luv.

(PS: With apologies to those who are just human!)
Edited by Anne-Marie, Saturday, 12. February 2011, 08:40.
Anne-Marie
FIAT VOLUNTAS DEI
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Gerard

Rose of York
Friday, 11. February 2011, 23:42
A simple cross would not in my opinion, suffice. It is commonly worn by Christians of all denominations.

I would see that as a positive advantage.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Mairtin
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Anne-Marie
Saturday, 12. February 2011, 08:36
Rose of York
Friday, 11. February 2011, 22:17
What is the connection between black and priesthood? The only symbolism I know of connected with that colour is death.
You obviously be white woman ...
and certainly not Chinese to whom the significance of black and white is reversed :grin:
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Mairtin
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Penfold2
Friday, 11. February 2011, 22:32
Oh an as for the white symbolising purity I suggest you check out a few, most priests make their own by cutting up a washing up bottle or in my case a salt container, since my favourite washing up liquid comes in a clear plastic bottle.
You've just taken me back to my childhood where I was astonished when my uncle took off his dog collar in the kitchen and I saw 'Fairy Liquid' written inside it :grin:
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Rose of York
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Gerard
Saturday, 12. February 2011, 09:17
Rose of York
Friday, 11. February 2011, 23:42
A simple cross would not in my opinion, suffice. It is commonly worn by Christians of all denominations.

I would see that as a positive advantage.

Gerry
It denotes Christianity, but does not indicate the wearer is a priest or other minister of religion.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

Yes, advantageous in all sorts of ways.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Mairtin
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Gerard
Saturday, 12. February 2011, 14:03
Yes, advantageous in all sorts of ways.

Gerry
Examples, Gerry ?
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Gerard

OK Mairtin,

1. cant tell catholics from protestants
2. cant tell clergy from laity

One is conducive to unity and so is the other one.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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I am intrigued by the vestments priests wear according to their status. Bishops wear very expensively made mitres, the chasubles worn by the Pope and other bishops are of higher quality than those worn by the majority of priests. Why is this? I find it distracts from the reason for them. The priest of whatever rank is representing Christ. Vestments must be worthy. "Posh" vestments just give me the impression they are intended to highlight the importance of the wearer's status in the hierarchy but that is irrelevant. From the consececr4ation onwards THE High Price is present. He is the important one.
Keep the Faith!

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