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Stealing. The Seventh Commandment
Topic Started: Sunday, 24. October 2010, 21:42 (489 Views)
Peter

Well.............., Mairtin has said that on this subject I've been full of nonsensical hyperbole and Alpac has said that I've had a rant. And all I thought I was doing was expressing MY opinion!

I must do my best not to be full of nonsensical hyperbole in the future, nor must I rant - I must keep myself in check. Oh that we could see ourselves as others see us and don't forget that cuts both ways!!

Peter

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tomais

Super Markets / banks; David Hume predicted many unregulated actions;sumed up as; " theft" in my book-immorality = theft
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PJD

"Super Markets / banks; David Hume predicted many unregulated actions;sumed up as; " theft" in my book-immorality = theft"

Agreed Tomais.

Of course not acceptable for many if it is 'in their patch'. [smile]

PJD
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Alpac

Peter
Tuesday, 26. October 2010, 09:20
Alpac has said that I've had a rant. And all I thought I was doing was expressing MY opinion!
And I agree with the gist of what you say Peter, if you manage to wade through my 'Waffle' :fire:
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Mairtin
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Peter
Tuesday, 26. October 2010, 09:20
Well.............., Mairtin has said that on this subject I've been full of nonsensical hyperbole and Alpac has said that I've had a rant. And all I thought I was doing was expressing MY opinion!
Just as we are surely entitled to give our opinions :grin:

The point that I was trying to make is that if you want to attack what you consider the damage done by large supermarkets than you need to get the right target in your sights and that, in my opinion, is not the supermarkets.

In you post you said “the people” in a town near you fought against Tesco for 15 years; can I ask you who these people were? I ask because in my experience the people who oppose supermarkets are generally existing businesses who don’t want the competition and maybe some environmentalists; in most cases, the majority of townspeople support the supermarket coming in. Alpac gives a typical example in his post where after a 15 year planning permission battle, “To the towns delight the [Sainsbury] store opened”. He points out that after the store opened, some apparently dubious behaviour came to light; he doesn’t say whether that impacted on the store’s performance but I’m willing to bet that it didn’t make one iota of difference.

That’s the problem you have to face up to – the majority of people want and welcome these large supermarkets into their area, there’s not much point in moaning about business responding to consumer demand, that’s what businesses are set up to do.
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Alpac

Mairtin
Tuesday, 26. October 2010, 11:28

He points out that after the store opened, some apparently dubious behaviour came to light; he doesn’t say whether that impacted on the store’s performance but I’m willing to bet that it didn’t make one iota of difference.

You are correct Mairtin.
I have long since moved on and I suspect the current generation know nothing other than the convenience of having Sainsbury on their door step just as their parents went to Fine-Fare and their parents a selection of local shops and traders.
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Derekap
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True there were no supermarkets at one time and our city and town centres were full of small shops. For example, Maypole, Liptons and a number of other similar shops but I suspect many of them were owned by the same people. Stead and Simpsons, Freeman, Hardy and Willis etc sold shoes and they changed their name every few years and changed back.
Derekap
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Rose of York
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Peter
Tuesday, 26. October 2010, 09:20
Well.............., Mairtin has said that on this subject I've been full of nonsensical hyperbole and Alpac has said that I've had a rant. And all I thought I was doing was expressing MY opinion!

I must do my best not to be full of nonsensical hyperbole in the future, nor must I rant - I must keep myself in check. Oh that we could see ourselves as others see us and don't forget that cuts both ways!!

Peter

Cuts both ways?

That's the spirit!

;)
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Derekap
Tuesday, 26. October 2010, 12:29
True there were no supermarkets at one time and our city and town centres were full of small shops. For example, Maypole, Liptons and a number of other similar shops but I suspect many of them were owned by the same people. Stead and Simpsons, Freeman, Hardy and Willis etc sold shoes and they changed their name every few years and changed back.
Derek as you and I were born within 30 miles of each other I am familiar with those names. There were a few chains of good quality family owned grocery cum bakery shops. As the founders and their children died, the following generations sold to Hillards, which in turn was bought by Tesco.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Mairtin
Tuesday, 26. October 2010, 11:28
That’s the problem you have to face up to – the majority of people want and welcome these large supermarkets into their area, there’s not much point in moaning about business responding to consumer demand, that’s what businesses are set up to do.
It ain't what they do, it's the way that they do it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7132108.stm
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Six firms including Sainsbury's and Asda have admitted colluding to fix the price of dairy products following an investigation by the Office of Fair Trading.

Now they have each agreed to pay fines - totalling more than £116m.

What were the allegations?

The OFT probe relates to claims of price-fixing of dairy products in 2002 and 2003.

Asda, Morrisons, Safeway, Sainsbury's and Tesco were each accused of colluding with other retailers on the price they charged for milk.

Asda, Safeway, Sainsbury's and Tesco also fixed the prices of cheese it was alleged, while Safeway and Tesco were accused of colluding on the price of some butter.

Meanwhile, dairy processors Arla, Dairy Crest, Wiseman Dairies, The Cheese Company and Lactalis McLelland were accused of helping the retailers share information.

Who has admitted what?

Of the retailers, Sainsbury's, Asda and Safeway (operating before it was bought by Morrisons) have admitted anti-competitive behaviour.

So too have Dairy Crest, Wiseman Dairies and The Cheese Company.

Arla has been given immunity from financial penalty on the condition it continues to co-operate having applied for leniency.

All the firms have agreed fines - which they say are smaller than if they had not admitted their involvement at this stage.
Keep the Faith!

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PJD

So they are cheats Rose?

What then has been stolen?

And who then become receivers?

PJD
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Rose of York
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Rose of York
Monday, 25. October 2010, 17:14
Supermarket policies may not a breach of the Seventh Commandment, I am not sure of that, but in my opinion they do not practice love of neighbour as the directors love themselves.

In response to PJD's post above, the supermarkets broke the law by operating a price fixing cartel. However I do not see how that could be regarded as theft. My opinion is they are greedy, will trample upon anybody to increase their power, but that has nothing to do with the Seventh Commandment.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Most of us on this thread including me have turned it into a discussion about the morality of supermarkets techniques.

If anybody would like to open a thread specifically about morality in business, as it relates to Christian faith, feel free to do so. There is more I would like to say about supermarkets, but not on here.

Meanwhile :topicbaack: :pl:
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Rose of York
Monday, 25. October 2010, 16:45
Morally the use of taxes to pay the interest and capital elements of mortgages on large expensive second homes for Members of Parliament was theft. There was no limit on the size or cost of property eligible. Inland Revenue sets a limit on the amount tax deductible by persons travelling away from home in connection with work or business. Parliament permitted the sale of one property, the proceeds being kept by the individual, and a bigger property being bought on yet another mortgage.

The system was legal but in my opinion, immoral.
Opening Post
 
Is stealing ever justifiable?

Are there circumstances in which taxation is theft?


I say the individuals who took advantage of the system, claiming on expenses to make themselves property rich, were breaking the Seventh Commandment, taking milk from the mouths of babes, and taking my money from me.

Some people are in a position to unlawfully under-declare their income for tax purposes. Is it justifiable to hide some income from Inland Revenue so they avoid paying on what they consider to be theft?
Keep the Faith!

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Peter

Alpac, no worries, it was just my (obviously) feeble attempt at humour - I must try harder in future!

Have a good evening.

Peter
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