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Sin, AIDS and compassion
Topic Started: Saturday, 23. October 2010, 16:12 (705 Views)
Rose of York
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http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=23811

CathNews
 
A storm of protest and disbelief is blowing across Belgium once again. This time the eye of the storm is Archbishop André-Joseph Léonard (pictured), the 70-year-old successor to Cardinal Godfried Danneels as Archbishop of Mechelen-Brussels.

In a new book, Gesprekken met Monseigneur Léonard, (Conversations with Archbishop Léonard), recently published by the Belgian publisher Lannoo, the archbishop asserts that the world-wide AIDS epidemic is a matter of “immanent justice”, reports the National Catholic Reporter.


Key members of the Flemish parliament protested, describing the Archbishop's stance as “repugnant” and “stupid”. One member called upon her to support a parliamentary resolution that "the disgusting statements of Archbishop Léonard be condemned in no uncertain terms." Other parliamentarians calling the legal tax status of the Belgian Catholic Church to be re-examined. The chairman of the Christian Democrat Party (CD&V), says he is strongly offended by Archbishop Léonard’s position.

“This statement [by Léonard} is very far from the Christian charity that Father Damian and so many others have been trying to live out,” he said.

A Christian politician, said "strike me speechless. For Jesus there were no justified illnesses."

CathNews
 
Sister Monica Van Kerrebroeck, former member of the Flemish Parliament for the Christian Democrats, expresses the consternation of many. “I just can’t go along with this,” she said in an interview.

“This statement from Léonard comes on hard and runs against my feelings. God is not a punishing God but a God of love.”
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Archbishop André-Joseph Léonard's attitude seems to me more compatible with the Koran than the Gospel.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

I suggest the first thing that needs to be done is to find out what the Bish actually said:

Quote:
 
In the book, when asked about AIDS, Léonard responded that AIDS is not a punishment from God, but “It is more a kind of immanent justice, somewhat like ecology and the environment: as when we have to pay the bill for what we have done to the milieu."


A better article
Edited by Gerard, Saturday, 23. October 2010, 17:05.
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Derekap
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Were there no occasions in the Old Testament when God punished peoples and cities? If so, is there any reason that God should not do so after His Son came on earth?
Derekap
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OsullivanB

Is there any evidence that He has done so? From memory He usually claimed responsibility when He did such things under the Old Covenant. In any event I see no connection between such punishments and the AIDS sufferer who got the unlucky blood tranfusion.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Derekap
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OsB wrote:

"In any event I see no connection between such punishments and the AIDS sufferer who got the unlucky blood tranfusion."

I thought we were talking about ailments as a result of sinful acts!
Derekap
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tomais

Thankyou Derek for sound sense and the over view.
Given what may or may not been said or written
cranks.
Consider this
Aids-the virus may have existed any way,but what if it had been deliberately spread? As a waepon of war?
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OsullivanB

Derekap
Saturday, 23. October 2010, 19:51
OsB wrote:

"In any event I see no connection between such punishments and the AIDS sufferer who got the unlucky blood tranfusion."

I thought we were talking about ailments as a result of sinful acts!
Why did you think that? I thought we were talking about Archbishop Leonard's reported words.
Edited by OsullivanB, Saturday, 23. October 2010, 22:23.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Gerard

Does God punish? The Books of Lamentations, Jeremiah and Isiaha are rather strong on the subject with an answer in the affirmative.

For a New Covenant equivalent one might consider the book of Revelation. Or, perhaps, Hebrews. If there is a difference we now understand it more as correction than punishment.

I think the thought police would prefer us not to say so, but the AIDS pandemic was spread by promiscuous homosexual men and intravenous drug abusers. Only later did it spread from these to other groups.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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OsullivanB

So, are we to understand that God is punishing African children for the sins of Western queers and junkies? Is that Hebrews or Revelation? Even when Job's comforters got this kind of thing wrong, they were a lot more focussed.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Rose of York
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Gerard
Saturday, 23. October 2010, 16:36
I suggest the first thing that needs to be done is to find out what the Bish actually said:

Quote:
 
In the book, when asked about AIDS, Léonard responded that AIDS is not a punishment from God, but “It is more a kind of immanent justice, somewhat like ecology and the environment: as when we have to pay the bill for what we have done to the milieu."


A better article
Quote:
 
Jürgen Mettepenningen, Léonard's spokesman, tried to clarify what the archbishop meant by “immanent justice.”

Responding to a journalist from De Standaard, Mettepenningen stressed that “AIDS flows logically from the facts: from a loose lifestyle. It is a bit like the person who smokes. That person has a greater chance of getting lung cancer.”


If the spokesman for the archbishop puts smoking and lung cancer on a par with homosexuality and AIDS how come we never hear of bishops or Popes condemning the use of tobacco? Life is sacred. We are duty bound to care for our health, but not a sausage is ever said about smoking or willingly having a bad diet. Looking at some bishops, I can see why they don't issue pastoral letters on healthy eating and gluttony. :rofl:
Keep the Faith!

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OsullivanB

Let's think really hard and spiritually. Who was to blame for the 1918-1920 flu pandemic? Despite its name, I don't think it's the Iberians.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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OsullivanB

Rose
 
pastoral letters on healthy eating and gluttony.
Shame though. They could be called Catholic fatwas.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Gerard

We are told the Bishop said that AIDS is not a punishment from God. Rose and OSB seem to ignore this.

The question does God punish was asked - and Scripture and Tradition says He does.

The mistake I think the Bishop made was to blame Nature. I wonder if he was afraid to blame Satan? The virus is of Nature, but its spread was through sin. Even today the best defense (though not impregnable) is moral living.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Gerard

P.S.

And the sins of the fathers are visited on the children ...

(and people dont like that verse either)

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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