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excommunicated saint; Mary MacKillop
Topic Started: Monday, 18. October 2010, 13:43 (569 Views)
Jamie

I was interested to read of Mary MacKillop, newly canonised as Australia's first saint, that she was actually excommunicated at one point for falling out with the church authorities over a case of clergy abuse.

It therefore occurred to me to wonder whether, had she died during this unjust period of excommunication, what was bound on earth might, after all, not have been bound in heaven.....
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Clare
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See also this thread.
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KatyA

I understand that the excommunication had nothing to do with abuse and, indeed, the media has been accused of michief making by trying to make a connection.
Quote:
 
Mary again faced another obstacle when the bishop at the time, Bishop Sheil, excommunicated her for what he deemed was insubordination when Mary wrote, in a letter to the bishop, that "I wish to please you, but above all, to please God." The bishop had ordered changes to be made within the order and Mary, feeling they were not best for the order, decided to step down as mother superior. The excommunication was lifted after just a few months when the bishop, on his deathbed, retracted his decision.
Zenit
Doesn't answer your question, but let's keep the records straight

See also marymackillop.org.au
Edited by KatyA, Monday, 18. October 2010, 14:40.
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Gerard

Hmmm,

Lets see,

Who to believe? The media? or a "curchy" spokesman?

'Scuse me if I am not immediately inclined to believe said churchy spokesman.
Bit of a reputation for cover up dont they?

Now lets just have a look at those links provided by KatyA

It says this on one of them:

Quote:
 
"Alongside this was a growing dislike for Fr Woods management of the schools within the Diocese of Adelaide. So began the first troubles of the new congreagtion ...


Would you care to pursue what was disliked about Fr Woods management of the schools, KatyA?

Gerry
Edited by Gerard, Monday, 18. October 2010, 15:09.
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=16856
Quote:
 
Calls for Mary MacKillop to be patron saint of abuse victims
By: Claire Bergin
Posted: Tuesday, October 5, 2010 9:55 pm

An American Jesuit priest has called for Blessed Mary MacKillop to be named as the patron of abuse victims when she is made a saint on 17 October.

An Australian television documentary due to be screened on 10 October, will present evidence showing that Blessed Mary MacKillop was at one time excommunicated from the Church for speaking out against an abusive priest.

Writing in America magazine, Fr James Martin SJ said: “Now victims of sex abuse and their families and friends, and all who desire reconciliation and healing in the Church, can pray to Mary MacKillop, who understands them perhaps better than any other saint.”

Mary was born in Melbourne to Scottish immigrant parents in 1842 and became a nun in 1866. In the following year she founded Australia's first religious order, the Josephites, dedicated to caring for the poor. Bishop Lawrence Shiel of Adelaide, excommunicated her in 1871, for insubordination.

The documentary says that Sr Mary had discovered that children were being abused by a Fr Patrick Keating, in parish near Adelaide. She reported him to the director of the Josephites, Fr Tenison-Woods and Fr Keating was eventually sent back to Ireland. However the documentary says that another priest a Fr Horan who was a colleague of Fr Keating complained to the bishop about her insubordinate behaviour. Five months later, when the bishop was dying, he reinstated Sr Mary MacKillop and she was able to continue her work.

In 2009, Archbishop Philip Wilson of Adelaide made a public apology to the Josephite Sisters for her wrongful excommunication. He said: “On behalf of myself and the archdiocese, I apologise to the sisters … for what happened to them in the context of the excommunication, when their lives and their community life was interrupted and they were virtually thrown out on the streets … This was a terrible thing."

Source: America Magazine/ABC

For more information see the official Mary MacKillop site: www.marymackillop.org.au/

and ICN report: Australian Catholics jubilant over news of first saint www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=15681


Article Reproduced in full, with permission
Keep the Faith!

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KatyA

If you prefer thesecular media, here a piece from the Huffington Post
Quote:
 
With vows of abstinence from owning personal belongings and dedication to helping the poor, MacKillop is credited with spreading Roman Catholicism in Australia and New Zealand.
But she was a strong-willed advocate who sometimes got into trouble for challenging orthodox thinking within the male-dominated church. In 1869 she was excommunicated for inciting her followers to disobedience, though the bishop who punished her recanted three years later and she was exonerated by a church commission.
the Huffington Post
Gerard, I do not suggest that there was no clerical abuse at the time, merely that it was NOT the reason for Mary Mackillop's excommunication. I believe that I read somewhere that in fact the problem was largely about ownership of property.
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Jamie

I did not intend this to become a debate about clergy abuse although my own researches confirm Rose's information that it was a Fr Keating who was responsible, not Fr Wood.
but it strike me as odd that someone now definitively declared a saint should once had been so very unjustly out of favour with her local bishop. I believe there is a move to make her the patron saint of abuse victims which would also be timely ...
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Jamie

KatyA
Monday, 18. October 2010, 15:54
If you prefer thesecular media, here a piece from the Huffington Post
Quote:
 
With vows of abstinence from owning personal belongings and dedication to helping the poor, MacKillop is credited with spreading Roman Catholicism in Australia and New Zealand.
But she was a strong-willed advocate who sometimes got into trouble for challenging orthodox thinking within the male-dominated church. In 1869 she was excommunicated for inciting her followers to disobedience, though the bishop who punished her recanted three years later and she was exonerated by a church commission.
the Huffington Post
Gerard, I do not suggest that there was no clerical abuse at the time, merely that it was NOT the reason for Mary Mackillop's excommunication. I believe that I read somewhere that in fact the problem was largely about ownership of property.
And should bishops be using excommunication to resolve property disputes?
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Rose of York
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There is much confusion about this affair.

I suggest:

read this first
http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&entry_id=3373
then this
http://www.borderwatch.com.au/archives/7810

Keep the Faith!

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KatyA

From the second of Rose's links
Quote:
 
There’s enough evidence of human weakness in the Catholic Church, we didn’t need to tarnish this event with misinformation,” he said.
“It’s the ill-will of people who are anxious to see something negative about the Catholic Church — there’s already enough mud to throw though.”

I have nothing further to add
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Gerard

Well I have.

No matter who you take as your source the problem starts with sexual abuse and its reporting.

Nothing to do with property.
Nothing to do with property.
Everything to do with sexual abuse and the political backlash of its reporting.

Now since you are keen on Rose's second link KatyA lets look at what it actually said. That her sisters reported the abuse and in revenge another priest tried to weaken and break up the order of nuns. Sr McKillop resisited and was excommunicated.

Everything coming out of this story from the catholic side is spin. The priest was fired! Oh really? Fired? Or moved to Ireland? it would be interesting to follow that one up.

And why would it be mischief making if Sr McKillop was said to have reported the priest? I'd give her a Sainthood for that alone. As it was she took the backlash.

So many catholics are still in denial. they make excuses when they should be seeking purification. Its the denial and excuses that make us look bad - not admissions and apologies. These are good.


As for the media - Thank God for them. And I mean that prayer. We were and are incapable of dealing with this. They are God's instrument forcing purification.

Property, indeed!
Any old made up excuse that comes to mind - bahhh!

:clare:

Gerry
Edited by Gerard, Monday, 18. October 2010, 19:01.
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Gerard

Rose of York
Monday, 18. October 2010, 16:29
There is much confusion about this affair.

Yes, we need look into the records and that will clear everything up.

oooops, what do you mean "there are no records .................

Gerry
Edited by Gerard, Monday, 18. October 2010, 18:58.
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Gerard

Jamie
Monday, 18. October 2010, 15:57
I did not intend this to become a debate about clergy abuse although my own researches confirm Rose's information that it was a Fr Keating who was responsible, not Fr Wood.
but it strike me as odd that someone now definitively declared a saint should once had been so very unjustly out of favour with her local bishop. I believe there is a move to make her the patron saint of abuse victims which would also be timely ...
Hi Jamie,

It is very normal for Saints to be persecuted by church authorities. The Holy Spirit challenges the comfortable. Saints therefore challenge the comfortable.

St John of the Cross, Teresa of Avilla and St Francis come to mind.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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Saint Joan of Arc suffered at the hands of the hierarchy.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Jamie
Monday, 18. October 2010, 15:57
I did not intend this to become a debate about clergy abuse although my own researches confirm Rose's information that it was a Fr Keating who was responsible, not Fr Wood.
but it strike me as odd that someone now definitively declared a saint should once had been so very unjustly out of favour with her local bishop. I believe there is a move to make her the patron saint of abuse victims which would also be timely ...
OK Jamie, I agree we have enough threads specifically about child abuse, but I think this is turning into a debate about clericalism, which needs to be rooted out of the Church.

When a builder does a bad job people will say "sue him". The same people will say "nobody should ever complain about a priest, they are not perfect, they are only human, they have weaknesses like anybody else, we all make mistakes, look at the sacrifices they make, they work so hard." Nobody says that about cowboy builders.
Keep the Faith!

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