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| excommunicated saint; Mary MacKillop | |
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| Topic Started: Monday, 18. October 2010, 13:43 (569 Views) | |
| Jamie | Monday, 18. October 2010, 13:43 Post #1 |
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I was interested to read of Mary MacKillop, newly canonised as Australia's first saint, that she was actually excommunicated at one point for falling out with the church authorities over a case of clergy abuse. It therefore occurred to me to wonder whether, had she died during this unjust period of excommunication, what was bound on earth might, after all, not have been bound in heaven..... |
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| Clare | Monday, 18. October 2010, 14:04 Post #2 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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See also this thread. |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| KatyA | Monday, 18. October 2010, 14:32 Post #3 |
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I understand that the excommunication had nothing to do with abuse and, indeed, the media has been accused of michief making by trying to make a connection.Zenit Doesn't answer your question, but let's keep the records straight See also marymackillop.org.au Edited by KatyA, Monday, 18. October 2010, 14:40.
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| Gerard | Monday, 18. October 2010, 14:54 Post #4 |
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Hmmm, Lets see, Who to believe? The media? or a "curchy" spokesman? 'Scuse me if I am not immediately inclined to believe said churchy spokesman. Bit of a reputation for cover up dont they? Now lets just have a look at those links provided by KatyA It says this on one of them:
Would you care to pursue what was disliked about Fr Woods management of the schools, KatyA? Gerry Edited by Gerard, Monday, 18. October 2010, 15:09.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 18. October 2010, 15:47 Post #5 |
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http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=16856
Article Reproduced in full, with permission |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| KatyA | Monday, 18. October 2010, 15:54 Post #6 |
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If you prefer thesecular media, here a piece from the Huffington Postthe Huffington Post Gerard, I do not suggest that there was no clerical abuse at the time, merely that it was NOT the reason for Mary Mackillop's excommunication. I believe that I read somewhere that in fact the problem was largely about ownership of property. |
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| Jamie | Monday, 18. October 2010, 15:57 Post #7 |
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I did not intend this to become a debate about clergy abuse although my own researches confirm Rose's information that it was a Fr Keating who was responsible, not Fr Wood. but it strike me as odd that someone now definitively declared a saint should once had been so very unjustly out of favour with her local bishop. I believe there is a move to make her the patron saint of abuse victims which would also be timely ... |
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| Jamie | Monday, 18. October 2010, 16:01 Post #8 |
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And should bishops be using excommunication to resolve property disputes? |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 18. October 2010, 16:29 Post #9 |
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There is much confusion about this affair. I suggest: read this first http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&entry_id=3373 then this http://www.borderwatch.com.au/archives/7810 |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| KatyA | Monday, 18. October 2010, 16:50 Post #10 |
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From the second of Rose's links
I have nothing further to add |
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| Gerard | Monday, 18. October 2010, 18:47 Post #11 |
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Well I have. No matter who you take as your source the problem starts with sexual abuse and its reporting. Nothing to do with property. Nothing to do with property. Everything to do with sexual abuse and the political backlash of its reporting. Now since you are keen on Rose's second link KatyA lets look at what it actually said. That her sisters reported the abuse and in revenge another priest tried to weaken and break up the order of nuns. Sr McKillop resisited and was excommunicated. Everything coming out of this story from the catholic side is spin. The priest was fired! Oh really? Fired? Or moved to Ireland? it would be interesting to follow that one up. And why would it be mischief making if Sr McKillop was said to have reported the priest? I'd give her a Sainthood for that alone. As it was she took the backlash. So many catholics are still in denial. they make excuses when they should be seeking purification. Its the denial and excuses that make us look bad - not admissions and apologies. These are good. As for the media - Thank God for them. And I mean that prayer. We were and are incapable of dealing with this. They are God's instrument forcing purification. Property, indeed! Any old made up excuse that comes to mind - bahhh! Gerry Edited by Gerard, Monday, 18. October 2010, 19:01.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Monday, 18. October 2010, 18:51 Post #12 |
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Yes, we need look into the records and that will clear everything up. oooops, what do you mean "there are no records ................. Gerry Edited by Gerard, Monday, 18. October 2010, 18:58.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Monday, 18. October 2010, 18:54 Post #13 |
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Hi Jamie, It is very normal for Saints to be persecuted by church authorities. The Holy Spirit challenges the comfortable. Saints therefore challenge the comfortable. St John of the Cross, Teresa of Avilla and St Francis come to mind. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 18. October 2010, 19:01 Post #14 |
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Saint Joan of Arc suffered at the hands of the hierarchy. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 18. October 2010, 19:06 Post #15 |
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OK Jamie, I agree we have enough threads specifically about child abuse, but I think this is turning into a debate about clericalism, which needs to be rooted out of the Church. When a builder does a bad job people will say "sue him". The same people will say "nobody should ever complain about a priest, they are not perfect, they are only human, they have weaknesses like anybody else, we all make mistakes, look at the sacrifices they make, they work so hard." Nobody says that about cowboy builders. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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7:52 PM Jul 11