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| Formal defection downgraded; “the to "expressed desire” of those who wish to defect | |
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| Topic Started: Thursday, 14. October 2010, 21:47 (697 Views) | |
| Gerard | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 17:27 Post #31 |
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Sorry to be pernickety PJD but that is not "obvious" to me Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Clare | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 17:31 Post #32 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Indeed. There is only one baptism, and it incorporates the baptised into the Mystical Body of Christ, aka the Catholic Church, whether they realise it or not. |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Mairtin | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 17:57 Post #33 |
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Unfortunately, ever since the various scandals started surfacing nearly 20 years ago, there has been an increasing number of people who wish to formally sever all links with the Church as an explicit sign of their total disgust both with what went on and with how it was mishandled by the hierarchy; also to smash the tradition that being Irish and being Catholic are more or less synonymous. |
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| PJD | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 18:15 Post #34 |
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"There is only one baptism, and it incorporates the baptised into the Mystical Body of Christ, aka the Catholic Church, whether they realise it or not." I think we all know that Clare. But that remark avoids the point. There is such a thing as a Catholic Christian and e.g. a Protestant Christian. Does this mean that all this paperwork is being used by Protestants as well as Catholics? I think not Clare This matter seems very fishy to me - what's your answer e.g. should the Church do all this paperwork or not? PJD |
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| Gerard | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 18:22 Post #35 |
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I think we should do the paperwork as an act of charity - recognising their desire and wish in whatever way we can. To tell them "No its not possible" is likely to frustrate, enrage and further alienate them. To accept their wishes in sorrow, tell them we have fulfilled their request and say they would always be welcome back - to me thats the way to go. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Mairtin | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 18:38 Post #36 |
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I agree, I can't see why we should seek to pretend that people who have chosen to abandon Catholicism are still Catholics. It somehow reminds me of the Mormons baptising dead people whose details have been submitted to their genealogical service. |
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| Angus Toanimo | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 18:43 Post #37 |
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Baptism, like Holy Orders, leaves an indelible mark upon one's soul. So there is no pretence, it is a reality. Whether people like it or not, and whatever the late Pope was thinking of in his revision of Canon Law in '83, there can never be a formal defection, and never was. Validly baptised people are members of the Catholic Church, regardless of what religion or none that they decide to take up, or ar raised in. It is impossible to erase Baptism, or to reverse it. |
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| Gerard | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 18:54 Post #38 |
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Yes Patrick but the church was not saying the Baptism was negated. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 19:46 Post #39 |
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Yes and to a person who regarded their decision as final, particularly one who no longer believed in God, it would smack of dictatorship and possessiveness.
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Angus Toanimo | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 19:57 Post #40 |
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No, and since Baptism was never negated, and never can be, there cannot ever be such a thing as "formal defection" from the Church. It's against Sacramental Theology. |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 20:24 Post #41 |
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Have fun with this one, folks, straight from the Vatican, written in Churchspeak. http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html Even I understand this bit.
Edited by Rose of York, Sunday, 17. October 2010, 20:27.
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| PJD | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 21:38 Post #42 |
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As I remarked to that canon lawyer Rose - "well done Pope Benedict". PJD |
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| Angus Toanimo | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 22:40 Post #43 |
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Is it just me, or does anyone else get the impression that the Holy Father's pontificate seems to be sweeping up after his predecessor? Edited by Angus Toanimo, Sunday, 17. October 2010, 22:41.
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 17. October 2010, 23:26 Post #44 |
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We have no Canon lawyers on the forum. The person best equipped to advise you on that is the Holy Spirit. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| OsullivanB | Monday, 18. October 2010, 06:38 Post #45 |
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Logically it seems to me that if the Church can expel by excommunication, the individual member must be able to resign, not necessarily only by going to the trouble of getting excommunicated. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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7:53 PM Jul 11