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Catholic Safeguarding Procedures; (England and Wales)
Topic Started: Wednesday, 6. October 2010, 21:24 (226 Views)
Rose of York
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In the past I have posted that I see flaws in the England and Wales Catholic procedures for Safeguarding Children and that generally forgotten, ignored group, Vulnerable Adults.

The Procedures for England and Wales can be read here
http://www.csasprocedures.uk.net/chapters/contents.html

We had the Nolan Report, then the further review published in the Cumberledge Report.

Now, a leading Catholic school, St Benedicts in Ealing, where there was abuse, has announced its own review. Could it be that they do not consider the current procedures of Catholic Safeguarding to be adequate?

London Evening Standard
 
The private school has announced a review by Lord Carlile of Berriew into the abuse and how it can be prevented. Lord Carlile today appealed to anyone affected by the scandal to come forward to help establish weaknesses in child protection at the school and Ealing Abbey, to which it is linked.

An advert in the Evening Standard set out the terms of the review, due to be published in January, and the range of evidence Lord Carlile is seeking.


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23885239-catholic-school-appeals-for-help-to-stop-further-abuse.do

I would like this discussion to stick to discussing the way forward. We have already adequately covered past events, in other threads. Irish affairs already have their own thread.
Keep the Faith!

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Alpac

Quote:
 
to help establish weaknesses in child protection at the school and Ealing Abbey, to which it is linked. London Evening Standard

I see it as a positive thing that the school has commissioned a review of its child protection policy and its implementation. The Nolan and Cumberledge Reports were national and generic but this will be a specific report into the practices of a particular school and I am sure will take the relatively new national guidelines into account in any recommendations it makes.
What worries me is that having had the Nolan and Cumberledge reports there may be a tendency to fall into a sort of complacency which will place responsibility for implementing the policies onto "someone else".
I think it is beholden on all schools to regularly review their own policy and to have it independently verified. Sadly not all will be able to call upon such august council as Lord Carlile of Berriew, to oversee the review.
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Alpac

As each generation passes it becomes necessary to adapt. Some of you are grandparents and your methods of raising children differ from your grandparents and will differ from those used by your grandchildren. What worked in our generation may not work for the next.
For example when I was at boarding school the TV was locked in a room and we were only allowed to watch it on special occasions, by the time I left the door was no longer locked and a second, “Colour” TV had been put in the room next door, however viewing times were restricted to before 9pm unless prior permission had been granted for an extension. On a recent visit TVs are all over the place and their ‘seems to be’ no restriction on what the youngsters watch, Oh and since I left, the school has gone Co-Ed so there is a minefield of policies needed to cope with that change.
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Alan
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Rose of York
Wednesday, 6. October 2010, 21:24
Now, a leading Catholic school, St Benedicts in Ealing, where there was abuse, has announced its own review. Could it be that they do not consider the current procedures of Catholic Safeguarding to be adequate?




I do not agree with your above statement in any way.

Child and Vulnerable Adult protection issues should and must be constantly under review. We all know that abusers are always changing the manner in which they "groom" their victims.

The school is to be commended for again reviewing their procedures and I would hope that any evidence they find for change will be shared with all appropriate authorities.

Before I retired I worked as an Accountant and the many regulations that evolved in my lifetime was quite incredible and I have no doubt that they will continue to evolve. So it should be with the protection of vulnerable individuals

God Bless all who visit this forum,

Alan.

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Anne-Marie

Alan
Thursday, 7. October 2010, 11:55
The school is to be commended for again reviewing their procedures
You may well be right, Alan...
But is that their motivation?
Or are they rather more interested in 'being seen to be doing something'?
(I have no idea what their motivation is, of course)
Anne-Marie
FIAT VOLUNTAS DEI
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Rose of York
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In parishes I would like to see one new rule introduced. Currently the parish priest chooses the Safeguarding Representative. A good priest will chose a representative who will be impartial, listen to the complaint, deal with it according to procedures. There are priests currently in prison who chose the people who would be in a position to process complaints against the priest. Surely such a priest would select a yes-man or woman who would be averse to entertaining complaints.

I would say that parents and vulnerable adults or their carers, should be given the opportunity to make their views known, when a person is nominated for the position of Safeguarding Representative, preferably in a secret ballot.

How come thinking people on internet forums still concentrate solely on children, whenever Safeguarding is mentioned? Child Protection changed its name to Safeguarding, because vulnerable adults need protection from abuse.
Keep the Faith!

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Alpac

As I understand it the Parish Priest, who has himself been vetted by the CRB, recommends people for the post of Parish Child Protection Officer but it is the Diocesan Authorities who make the appointment in conjunction with the guidelines laid down by COPCA - Catholic Office for the Protection of Children & Vulnerable Adults.

The thing that sadly is still being ignored is that over 90% of cases of child abuse involve a family member so handing things over to the laity is not necessarily a safe option.
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Rose of York
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COPCA no longer exists. In 2008, following the Cumberland Report, policies were revised, and COPCA was replaced by National Catholic Safeguarding Advisory Service, chaired by Adrian Child, a layman and National Catholic Safeguarding Commission, chaired by a layman, Bill Kilgallon.

The roles of the two bodies are on the front page of CSAS website
http://www.csas.uk.net/
The procedures manual is in the public domain:
Catholic Safeguarding Advisory Service Procedures
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Alpac
Friday, 8. October 2010, 11:09
As I understand it the Parish Priest, who has himself been vetted by the CRB, recommends people for the post of Parish Child Protection Officer but it is the Diocesan Authorities who make the appointment in conjunction with the guidelines laid down by COPCA - Catholic Office for the Protection of Children & Vulnerable Adults.

The thing that sadly is still being ignored is that over 90% of cases of child abuse involve a family member so handing things over to the laity is not necessarily a safe option.


Child Protection Officers are out, Parish Safeguarding Representatives are in. Dioceses have Safeguarding Officers. Obviously the parish priest is in overall control of the parish. He has been vetted, that shows he has no criminal record for abuse of children or vulnerable adults. The check gives indication that he will select a suitable person to protect the vulnerable people. The children and vulnerable adults are primarily the responsibility of their families, so I think they should have some say in who is the safeguarding rep. I have heard a priest say the requirement for Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion need to be vetted is political correctness. Those people enter the homes of adults with mental disabilities, even dementia, and they go into private rooms in nursing homes.

Catholic Safeguarding Manual does have a chapter on domestic abuse.

Agreed, 90% of abuse takes place in family situations. The parish's main responsibility in this matter is to protect vulnerable people from abuse in parish situations. A parish has one priest, and a lot of families. The priest is not necessarily in a good position to know all the parishioners and make a wise choice. The families who have been there longer than the priest know who is a creep and who will put justice and welfare first. For goodness sake, priests who were abusers chose the people whose task it was to report accusations or concerns. The appointment would be made, the parishioners told, no invitation beforehand to make observations on the selection. That in my opinion is a weakness in the system.

The Diocesan Safeguarding Office staff do not know all the parish reps, but they would, of course, continue endorsing appointments because the Diocesan Trust bears legal responsibility.
Keep the Faith!

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Alpac

Rose of York
Friday, 8. October 2010, 12:41
For goodness sake, priests who were abusers chose the people whose task it was to report accusations or concerns.
Rose, the name may have changed but the principle is the same. The PP does not act alone he acts in accordance with the National directives and I consider your remark above to be offensive. The safeguards that have been introduced since 2001 did not apply in to any of the priests who have been convicted of child abuse so it is false to suggest that they appointed people who would collude with them to the post of Child protection officer/safeguarding officer.
The other point I make is in accordance with your own request that this thread be about the way forward not a platform to dig up old ground. It is this, the majority of cases, over 90%, of child abuse occurs within the family and I am sorry to disagree with you Rose but when the cases come to light, sadly following the death of a child, the neighbours, workmates and fellow parishioners rarely have any clue as to what is going on and often had the perpetrator round as a family friend. Until people wake up to the horrid reality of incest and tackle it the children will be at risk. I do not share your faith in the ability of the parish to spot the creeps, but I do know of many social workers, psychologists and teachers who despair of the systems inability to deal with incest. Every 10 days in England a child is killed by a parent), according to the NSPCC (these are the known and proven cases how many more hide in the closet).
That does not negate the churches duty to protect children it highlights one of the difficulties that it has to deal with, the parishioners who are the perpetrators of vile crimes in the secrecy of their homes. It also fails to account for the number of wives who are abused in order to protect their children and keep quiet because they are ashamed and often feel that the great and the good of the parish laity will not understand or support them.
The betrayal of trust by a priest or religious is inexcusable but how much worse to be betrayed by a member of your own family. My concern is that over the past 10 years in England a lot of time and effort has been put into investigating cases against priests, most going back over 30 years, where evidence is weak and confused while at the same time children continue to be abused in their own homes with no media campaign or cries of shame and even with overwhelming evidence too few convictions. You wanted to discuss the way forward Rose, well stop defending your saintly fellow parishioners and start looking for the clues. Child abuse is a well concealed crime in many outwardly respectable family homes, but probably not in your neighbourhood.
Edited by Alpac, Friday, 8. October 2010, 14:30.
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Rose of York
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Alpac
Friday, 8. October 2010, 14:21
Rose of York
Friday, 8. October 2010, 12:41
For goodness sake, priests who were abusers chose the people whose task it was to report accusations or concerns.
Rose, the name may have changed but the principle is the same. The PP does not act alone he acts in accordance with the National directives and I consider your remark above to be offensive. The safeguards that have been introduced since 2001 did not apply in to any of the priests who have been convicted of child abuse so it is false to suggest that they appointed people who would collude with them to the post of Child protection officer/safeguarding officer.
The other point I make is in accordance with your own request that this thread be about the way forward not a platform to dig up old ground.
National directives do not know individual parishioners. I certainly do not want to dig up old ground, and as a moderator will observe and make every effort to prevent that happening. That is why I did not mention a case of abuse, heard in court, that did take place in a parish, since 2001. If I name the guilty person I will be dragging up the past, I will not do that. I do not suggest that they appointed people who would collude with them to the post of Child protection officer/safeguarding officer, I just think some people would have difficulty accepting that a person they know well could have abused. Note, not all potential abusers are priests. Some volunteers have to be CRB checked. I am discussing possibilities, not specific events.

Quote:
 
It is this, the majority of cases, over 90%, of child abuse occurs within the family and I am sorry to disagree with you Rose but when the cases come to light, sadly following the death of a child, the neighbours, workmates and fellow parishioners rarely have any clue as to what is going on and often had the perpetrator round as a family friend. Until people wake up to the horrid reality of incest and tackle it the children will be at risk. I do not share your faith in the ability of the parish to spot the creeps, but I do know of many social workers, psychologists and teachers who despair of the systems inability to deal with incest. Every 10 days in England a child is killed by a parent), according to the NSPCC (these are the known and proven cases how many more hide in the closet).
Would the parish priest have been any more able than parishioners to spot the domestic abuser in their midst? We all have a responsibility to be observant for such crimes, the Safeguarding Representative's role is administrative, and of course, needs a sympathetic person with a good listening ear.

Quote:
 
That does not negate the churches duty to protect children it highlights one of the difficulties that it has to deal with, the parishioners who are the perpetrators of vile crimes in the secrecy of their homes.
The church has a responsibility, as does any citizen, to involve police and social services.

Quote:
 
It also fails to account for the number of wives who are abused in order to protect their children and keep quiet because they are ashamed and often feel that the great and the good of the parish laity will not understand or support them.
Agreed.

Quote:
 
The betrayal of trust by a priest or religious is inexcusable but how much worse to be betrayed by a member of your own family. My concern is that over the past 10 years in England a lot of time and effort has been put into investigating cases against priests, most going back over 30 years, where evidence is weak and confused while at the same time children continue to be abused in their own homes with no media campaign or cries of shame and even with overwhelming evidence to few convictions.
Does the name Victoria Climbie ring a bell? There have been media campaigns about failures on the part of Social Services.
Quote:
 
You wanted to discuss the way forward Rose, well stop defending your saintly fellow parishioners and start looking for the clues.
Saintly? I made no such suggestion, or any comments on people in my parish, I was discussing policies.
Quote:
 
Child abuse is a well concealed crime in many outwardly respectable family homes, but probably not in your neighbourhood.

Why not in my neighbourhood? You have no idea where I currently reside. For all you know I might live in a place with a known high incidence. Actually we have a few rogues and a lot of law abiding citizens in the outwardly respectable homes, and the same goes for the less desirable properties. I used to live in an county where it was, judging by newspaper reports of Crown Court trials, rife. I had every confidence in the priests I knew in that county.

Whatever the level of abuse in private homes, or secular organisations, this discussion is supposedly about child and vulnerable adult protection in Catholic parishes and organisations.

I really am trying to have a discussion in which we discuss whether any improvements can be made in procedures and practices in Catholic situations. If you consider any of my posts break forum rules, you are welcome to click the Report button, other moderators will deal with the report. They can edit or delete my posts, you cannot. I will respect their decision.
Edited by Rose of York, Saturday, 9. October 2010, 00:43.
Keep the Faith!

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