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" Immortality "; (Aquinas - thoughts on)
Topic Started: Friday, 1. October 2010, 13:02 (93 Views)
PJD



A Philosophical Viewpoint


Aquinas’ treatment of immortality gives the impression of being extremely academic and dry. Even when he is speaking of the desire for everlasting life there are no emotional overtones: at least they are far from obvious. This characteristic is however common to a large number of medieval thinkers. This impression of remoteness and aloofness from concern for human existence and destiny can, of course, be sometimes misleading; and the present instance is doubtless a case in point.

One must bear in mind the fact that Aquinas was always concerned with truth, and he thought that knowledge of truth is better obtained by dispassionate consideration of evidence and arguments than by appeals to the heart or to the emotions.

Obviously there could not be any eternal life if the human being were completely destroyed at death, and Aquinas paid attention to philosophic reasons for saying that the human soul survives death. But the mere survival of a disembodied soul is not at all the same thing as eternal life in the full Christian sense. And as it is by revelation and not by philosophic reflection that the Christian knows of man’s supernatural destiny, it is easy to understand that Aquinas did not write with poetic enthusiasm about the subject of mere survival, considered in abstraction from Christian revelation. In his eyes the important question for any man would be whether he was prepared to fulfil his supernatural destiny by co-operating with divine grace, not simply whether he was going to survive or not as a kind of disembodied mind.

Aquinas argues from the spirituality of the soul to its incorruptibility. A human being is capable of knowing all bodies. But if the mind [intellectual soul] were corporeal it would have to be a particular kind of body; and in that case it would not know or be capable of knowing other kinds of bodies. Thus we would see that the tongue of a sick man which is infected by a bitter taste cannot perceive anything sweet; but all things seem bitter to it. Therefore if the intellectual principle had in it the nature of a body, it could not know all bodies. It is thus impossible that the intellectual principle should be a body. The intellectual soul of man must therefore be incorporeal and in this case must also be incorruptible. It makes no sense to speak of an immaterial principle or form becoming worn out, as it were, and as falling to pieces or disintegrating. Nor, if it is not intrinsically dependent on the body, can it cease to exist when the body disintegrates. The human soul, in fine, can be corrupted neither per se, by reason of some factor inherent in itself, nor per accidens, by reason of the disintegration of the body (S.T.,1a,75 6).

The human soul is thus ‘naturally’ immortal, not in the sense that it is impossible for God to annihilate it but in the sense that, unless God withdraws His conserving activity, an event which there is no reason for expecting, it continues to exist without any miracle being required.


(Source: extracts Copleston on Aquinas)



PJD
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Rose of York
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PJD
Friday, 1. October 2010, 13:02

A Philosophical Viewpoint


It makes no sense to speak of an immaterial principle or form becoming worn out, as it were, and as falling to pieces or disintegrating. Nor, if it is not intrinsically dependent on the body, can it cease to exist when the body disintegrates. The human soul, in fine, can be corrupted neither per se, by reason of some factor inherent in itself, nor per accidens, by reason of the disintegration of the body (S.T.,1a,75 6).

The human soul is thus ‘naturally’ immortal, not in the sense that it is impossible for God to annihilate it but in the sense that, unless God withdraws His conserving activity, an event which there is no reason for expecting, it continues to exist without any miracle being required.


(Source: extracts Copleston on Aquinas)



PJD
It is obvious to me that the existence of the soul is not dependent upon the survival of the body. A man without a leg exists, a man without a kidney can exist, with assistance. When the brain ceases to function the body can continue to exist, with assistance.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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PJD
Friday, 1. October 2010, 13:02

A Philosophical Viewpoint

But the mere survival of a disembodied soul is not at all the same thing as eternal life in the full Christian sense.
Please I need help on this, I am currently trying to help, by listening and chatting, a person who is not terminally ill, is a Catholic convert and has suddenly started to be concerned about what happens at death and how a person can be supremely happy, "looking at God all day and every day".

Eventually the body will rise. Presumably it will be reunited with the soul. My friend wants to know whether the arms, legs, mouth etc will be put to use!

My friend cannot get to RCIA, the priest is genuinely unable to travel to help, due to his own sickness and too many parishes to care for on his own. There is no point in approaching the catechists, I am a trained though inactive catechist. Anyway there are some distance away from us and untrained!
Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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It's better to be concerned with actually getting to Heaven, and not to worry about what we're going to do when/if we get there. It's academic. Getting there matters. No one who makes it will be disappointed.
S.A.G.

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Gerard

It is abundantly clear from scripture that we will have bodies. Glorified bodies. So they are going to feel great.

We know quite a lot about one such body - that of Jesus. He showed his pierced hands and feet to Thomas. This suggests to me that these are marks of glory and not of pain.

We know that Jesus, after his ressurection, cooked and ate fish. He walked along a road and held conversations.

Can your friend remember being a teenager and being totally and romantically in love? The feelings will be like that only magnified. And the feelings will be returned.

Personally, I think worship will be unimaginably enjoyable. But not everyone can understand that concept. But I expect to do everything I enjoyed while on earth. Cycling, gardening, eating drinking socialising - you name it.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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PJD

I agree with all you say Gerry.

We were after all made in the image and likeness of God; thus also was our sense of 'reason' and surely must reflect in some way God attributes in this respect. Thus what you say is, in my opinion, not against reason.

However others no doubt will have different views. Let's see who can pick out the 'reasosnable' nicest.

[I liked your attention to affection]

PJD
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tomais

A short cut;Thomas Reid: Commonsense Philosophy/philosopher.
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PJD

Tomais; I think that Gerry's post 6 above would duplicate nicely on the childhood topic. But it is not for me to copy and paste such an excellent response (smile). Don't you think?

edit; sorry post 5
Edited by PJD, Saturday, 2. October 2010, 19:29.
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Gerard

Flattery will get you everywhere PJD :bl:

I had to reread and think about it before seeing the connection myself.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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