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Racism and religious hatred
Topic Started: Monday, 6. April 2009, 14:21 (1,676 Views)
SeanJ
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I was just about to post the same statements from Harriet Harman, but Rose beat me to it.

The BNP is a real danger.

Sean
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Deleted User
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I agree that the BNP is a danger and that its views are disgusting. However, should we be saying " BNP= scum"? Is that how Christians should be describing people? I have no quarrel with the strongest possible language being aimed at BNP policies but we need to be careful not to respond with Fascist -like language ourselves.


John
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CARLO
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Rose of York
Friday, 10. April 2009, 12:46
CARLO, I have over one hundred relatives living in a BNP heartland. It worries me, there will be civil war up there. I started a serious discussion, not a picture gallery.

Rose

I choose to use pictures as well as words to make my points.

If this is against the rules I will desist.

As for BP I spent over 10 happy years in his movement so no insult intended to the founder.

Pax tecum
Peace be with thee


CARLO
Judica me Deus
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Rose of York
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CARLO
Friday, 10. April 2009, 23:19
Rose

I choose to use pictures as well as words to make my points.

If this is against the rules I will desist.

As for BP I spent over 10 happy years in his movement so no insult intended to the founder.

Pax tecum
Peace be with thee


CARLO
It is not against any rules, I just didn't see the point because I thought it could lead to all sorts of digressions about Scouting.

Lets not fall out over it, it could be me, the BNP situation does worry me, mainly because of their strength where I have my roots.

Pax tecum
Peace be with thee

Keep the Faith!

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CARLO
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Rose

I would be the last person to deal with the subject of racism lightly so do not fear on that score.

Neither of us have any time for racists and we will not fall out on this subject or indeed on any other.

Cor unum et anima una
With one heart and one soul


CARLO
Judica me Deus
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william of bow
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For John's benefit -

SCUM - matter coming to or floating on the surface of liquid, especially in the form of foam or froth; worthless, despicable people
(Chambers Dictionary; 1995)

William

William of Bow

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Blessed are they who have not seen and yet have believed: a passage which some have considered as a prophecy of modern journalism.
[G.K.Chesterton]



Check my Blog: http://www.williamonthehill.typepad.co.uk
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OsullivanB

I suppose that, strictly speaking, since we are all made in the image and likeness of God, no human being is worthless.
Edited by OsullivanB, Saturday, 11. April 2009, 09:45.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Deleted User
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"...do not turn in loathing from me, an accursed sinner,
who have made myself utterly worthless through shameful thoughts, words, deeds,
and through the sloth of the pleasures of life have become a slave to my own will.
But as Mother of the God Who loves mankind have compassion on me..."

(From the Small Compline)

John Sweeney is quite right. In any case, the BNP are not the only ones to appropriate the Crucified for some purpose or agenda of their own. I suspect we're all involved in our different ways. I'm reminded of Cardinal Biffi's comments that too often even within the Church, Christ is simply an excuse for talking about something else.
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PJD


"John Sweeney is quite right."

Yes I agree.

PJD
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OsullivanB

I doubt the Small Compline is good theology. It may be the translation that is at fault. Unworthy - yes; worthless - no. In the eyes of God we all have worth always. Of this I have no doubt. If I doubted this, I would have nothing
Edited by OsullivanB, Saturday, 11. April 2009, 12:09.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Deleted User
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Quote:
 
Unworthy - yes; worthless - no. In the eyes of God we all have worth always.


It's a question of perspective, OsB. Objectively we know that God never abandons his creature and and never ceases to will his salvation. Subjectively, though, any and every genuine encounter with the living God brings with it an awareness of our own nothingness, apart from Him in Whose image and likeness we were made. The prayer to the Blessed Virgin is not a didactic exercise - it's a first-person account of the soul's awareness of its nakedness and corruption - its deadened-ness - before "the God who loves mankind". In this perspective (which is the perspective of the Cross), only oneself will appear wholly despicable. Condemnation of others is out of the question.

Today is Lazarus Saturday in the Orthodox Church. The following post from Fr Stephen seems entirely apropos:
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...Raskolnikov, in Crime and Punishment, finds the beginning of his repentance of the crime of murder, by listening to a reading of the story of Lazarus. It is, for many, and properly so, a reminder of the universal resurrection. What Christ has done for Lazarus He will do for all.

For me, he is also a sign of the universal entombment. That even before we die, we have frequently begun to inhabit our tombs. We live our life with the doors closed (and we stink). Our hearts are often places of corruption and not the habitation of the good God. Or, at best, we ask Him to visit us as He visited Lazarus. That visit brought tears to the eyes of Christ. The state of our corruption makes Him weep. It is such a contradiction to the will of God. We were not created for the tomb.

I also note that in the story of Lazarus - even in his being raised from the dead - he rises in weakness. He remains bound by his graveclothes. Someone must “unbind” him. We ourselves, having been plunged into the waters of Baptism and robed with the righteousness of Christ, too often exchange those glorious robes for graveclothes. Christ has made us alive, [but] we remain bound like dead men.

http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/in-the-tomb-of-lazarus/

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OsullivanB

O'Ratty
 
Condemnation of others is out of the question.

Thank you for your (as always illuminating) follow-up post.

It was the use in context of the word "scum" that I had in mind. If we individually see ourselves as scum before God, that I understand. To call others scum seems wrong.

As to worth, I wish I could remember the wooden plaque which stands in the common room of the guest house at Worth Abbey. It says something like "Accept Oh Lord our little worth", which fits better with my personal perspective. I see it as important for us to know that however little we value ourselves before God, He values us at all times. And as I offer myself, my day, my deeds to God, I need to believe that however small and unworthy it is, He wants to receive it as something worth receiving. I don't think we are likely to differ significantly about this.

Your post is a further incentive to re-read Dosteovsky. I did re-read The Brothers Karamazov recently. Such riches! My Amazon list has the other major works on it, together with Archbishop Rowan Williams reflections on them. If you have read the latter, I would appreciate your opinion of it.
Edited by OsullivanB, Saturday, 11. April 2009, 16:02.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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tomais

Here are a few pinters; 1894 Dreyfus: Assumptive Order: La Croix: Colenonel Henrty: Action Francais and C Maurras: Vichy France: Milice: French College Rome and marcel Lefebvre: Re Chile and their tidying up; Paul Touvier in the Nice prioey of the SSPX.
BNP ?
Are we noocent by association?
How many " Catholics" are BNP/Lefebvreists?
See the web sites see in the morrors of our lives.
see, watch and be aware.
Discuss
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Rose of York
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tomais
Saturday, 11. April 2009, 18:59
Here are a few pinters; 1894 Dreyfus: Assumptive Order: La Croix: Colenonel Henrty: Action Francais and C Maurras: Vichy France: Milice: French College Rome and marcel Lefebvre: Re Chile and their tidying up; Paul Touvier in the Nice prioey of the SSPX.
BNP ?
Are we noocent by association?
Most Catholics are, I think, innocent of such association.

You will find some Catholics in any organisation, whether it be for good or bad.
Keep the Faith!

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Deleted User
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Well, Rose, it is interesting. Some right wing crazies--the Klu Klux Klan for instance--hated Catholics in addition to Blacks and Jews. Other nasties--Franco's Falangists , for example--relied on Catholic support and received it from many individual Catholics and from the Church itself. Opinions differ on the relationship between the worst of them all, the Nazis, and Catholicism--see previous threads.

As far as I know the BNP has no great Catholic links or support and if anything I would say that over the years it has tended to be anti-Catholic and that feeling has been reciprocated. There are individual exceptions to all these generalities, of course.


John
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