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Offensive Words
Topic Started: Thursday, 16. September 2010, 19:54 (833 Views)
Rose of York
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Why call a person anything in connection with a physical difference? The soul and personality are more important to others, or should be. I am not keen on this business of singling out a wheelchair user to be introduced or blessed. There may be others in the crowd with bigger worries that happen to be invisible to the human eye.
Keep the Faith!

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OsullivanB

I suppose really serious cases became Joey Archbishops. (Sorry, it just seemed so wonderful that Deacon should be a term of abuse.)
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
OsullivanB
Thursday, 16. September 2010, 22:20
I suppose really serious cases became Joey Archbishops.
Or Joey Archdruids. ;)
S.A.G.

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tomais

Thinking of recent cases;
try
Engerland!
Yankee!
Jock!
Taffey!
Mr McKellan- actor!
Ther again in making a funchoice amongst friends-just as we used to to a few<( few ?) years ago;
Eenie meeni minie mo ---------------------------for the innocent the rime is-toe!
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Eileenanne

The official colour of my school uniform was nigger brown. The school is now closed, but I expect they changed that well before its demise.

Eileenanne
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OsullivanB

It almost always boils down to simple courtesy, with perhaps on accasion a touch of sensitivity. I find a good rule is to call people what they want to be called and not to call them what they prefer not to be called.

A classic example is what used to be called The Royal Hospital and Home for Incurables.

They used to advertise with the boast that their patients were proud of the name. Then someone had the bright idea of actually asking the patients and those close to them. As a result the name was changed to The Royal Hospital and Home. When they realised that no-one understood what this meant, they changed the name again to The Royal Hospital for Neuro-Disability.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Eileenanne

OsullivanB
Thursday, 16. September 2010, 22:41
It almost always boils down to simple courtesy, with perhaps on accasion a touch of sensitivity. I find a good rule is to call people what they want to be called and not to call them what they prefer not to be called.

Spot on, OSB

Eileenanne
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Anne-Marie

OsullivanB
Thursday, 16. September 2010, 22:41
I find a good rule is to call people what they want to be called and not to call them what they prefer not to be called.
I accept that, OSB.
Trouble is, when, like me, you're getting old all too fast and wondering if you're starting to show signs of senility (because the English you are convinced you learned is suddenly completely wrong and offensive)... you just can't remember or learn the language that has supplanted English since you learned it many decades ago!
Had not Clare mentioned Scope, I wouldn't have had a clue what the Society was now called!

In my case, it really is old age rather than being offensive that is the problem.
I feel a bit like a Czech in the Habsburg Empire, when Czech was considered subversive!

Others may choose tyo consider me offensive for using English, but it is also now offensive to refer to rubbish collectors (apparently they're public hygiene operatives) or window cleaners (transparent wall maintenance engineers)... to an old fogey like me (and yes I quite openly refer to myself as an old fogey), it is an absurd and quite incomprehensible language, so kindly bear with me as I try to learn and then remember this new lingo, which I find totally alien.
Anne-Marie
FIAT VOLUNTAS DEI
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Angus Toanimo
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Anne-Marie
Friday, 17. September 2010, 07:07
OsullivanB
Thursday, 16. September 2010, 22:41
I find a good rule is to call people what they want to be called and not to call them what they prefer not to be called.
I accept that, OSB.
Trouble is, when, like me, you're getting old all too fast and wondering if you're starting to show signs of senility (because the English you are convinced you learned is suddenly completely wrong and offensive)... you just can't remember or learn the language that has supplanted English since you learned it many decades ago!
Had not Clare mentioned Scope, I wouldn't have had a clue what the Society was now called!

In my case, it really is old age rather than being offensive that is the problem.
I feel a bit like a Czech in the Habsburg Empire, when Czech was considered subversive!

Others may choose tyo consider me offensive for using English, but it is also now offensive to refer to rubbish collectors (apparently they're public hygiene operatives) or window cleaners (transparent wall maintenance engineers)... to an old fogey like me (and yes I quite openly refer to myself as an old fogey), it is an absurd and quite incomprehensible language, so kindly bear with me as I try to learn and then remember this new lingo, which I find totally alien.
Anne-Marie, I don't see why you should try and explain yourself. You did nothing wrong. It is political correctness that is wrong. When I was growing up, "PC" stood for "Personal Computer" and "Police Constable". You're neither getting old too fast or showing signs of senility when society, directed by the Government, is showing signs of stupdity and insanity. And you're quite right about things being absurd and incomprehensible. You don't have to conform to the new "political correct" way of saying things and I believe you should continue as you are.

"Public Hygiene Operatives" has always made me laugh, and I always resisted using the term "barperson" in place of "barman" and "barmaid".

It is absurd.

As every bit as absurd as the stupid idea behind "Bah Bah White Sheep" which silently angers me every time I hear it and correct my children.

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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
I think it should be obvious when someone is being deliberately offensive. Clearly, Anne-Marie was not being offensive at all when she used "the S word" yesterday.

It is obviously sensible to be aware that other people might take offence, but sometimes other people need to be a bit less over-sensitive and realise when someone is not being malicious or intending to cause offence.
S.A.G.

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Angus Toanimo
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Clare
Friday, 17. September 2010, 08:23
I think it should be obvious when someone is being deliberately offensive. Clearly, Anne-Marie was not being offensive at all when she used "the S word" yesterday.
I'm hoping that was obvious to everybody here.

Quote:
 
It is obviously sensible to be aware that other people might take offence, but sometimes other people need to be a bit less over-sensitive and realise when someone is not being malicious or intending to cause offence.


This is the problem that the last Government has created. And the jails house plenty of people who have fallen foul of their ridiculous PC laws - and I'm willing to bet there's not one criminal MP or banker among them.
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OsullivanB

Patrick
 
the jails house plenty of people who have fallen foul of their ridiculous PC laws
An interesting suggestion., which I cannot recall seeing before. A reference to evidence would be appreciated.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Rose of York
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Anne-Marie
Friday, 17. September 2010, 07:07
Others may choose tyo consider me offensive for using English, but it is also now offensive to refer to rubbish collectors (apparently they're public hygiene operatives) or window cleaners (transparent wall maintenance engineers).
Public hygiene operative may be the term used in employment contracts but in my experience the men who collect the rubbish still call themselves binmen. I have yet to hear of transparent wall maintenance engineers. If I am out when the windows are cleaned, the bill is put through my letter box. It is headed with the name and below it "Window Cleaner".

When we consider describing people by their illnesses or disabilities, on an individual level the mode of transport or the diagnosis is irrelevant. My friend who uses a wheelchair all the time due to being unable to walk at all, is known by her name, she is a person. Nobody refers to her as the woman in the wheelchair. The nature of her illness is private to her, I consider it is offensive to ask, medical information is confidential.

I have a neighbour who could be labelled the old man with an eye patch. We all know he is a plant microbiologist (retired) and tireless worker for a service charity.

A few weeks ago I was walking with a limp. Twice, strangers walked up to me and asked "What have you been doing to yourself?" I replied "Nothing." If I had been more quick thinking I could have said "been involved in a drunken punch up, got slung in the cells." It is just a silly question. Walk normally, strangers ignore you. If you feel lonely, try limping, or put your arm in a sling when there is nothing wrong with you, you will suddenly find yourself the focus of attention. Folks are funny! It must be hard for people with a permanent limp.
Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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Rose of York
Sunday, 19. September 2010, 14:13
My friend who uses a wheelchair all the time due to being unable to walk at all, is known by her name, she is a person. Nobody refers to her as the woman in the wheelchair. The nature of her illness is private to her, I consider it is offensive to ask, medical information is confidential.

I have a neighbour who could be labelled the old man with an eye patch. We all know he is a plant microbiologist (retired) and tireless worker for a service charity.
That's all very well for people who know them, but if, say, you're all at a party, and someone would like to see whoever made the lovely cake, and the lady in the wheelchair made it, it would not be out of line to say, "That lady over there, the one in the wheelchair, she made it."

Or if someone wanted to know who did the wonderful decorations, it would not be much use saying "That plant microbiologist over there did it," now, would it?
S.A.G.

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OsullivanB

I would draw the distinction between identification and categorisation. The one respects the integrity of the person as an individual; the other doesn't.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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