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Back To The Future
Topic Started: Friday, 27. August 2010, 17:12 (920 Views)
Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Derekap
Friday, 27. August 2010, 22:39
No, Clare, I'm sure you would say bring back The Tridentine Holy Mass in Latin and abolish the Vernacular Ordinary Form. This despite the fact that Apostles would not use this rite ...
Did not and would not are not the same, Derek! I am sure they would have done. And I am also sure they would not offer the New Rite.
S.A.G.

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Paduan
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Mairtin
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 08:19
Though, strangely enough, our Church has always seemed to thrive on persecution, I'm thinking of Penal times in Ireland as well as the early Church)
Interestingly, it seems that vocations are increasing, right at the time when the Church is suffering greatly from the fallout of the various abuse scandals.

Perhaps prospective seminarians are being prompted by all of this pain to defend their faith and their church and seek to rebuild it?
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Mairtin
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 08:19
Fair enough, I don't think that any of us would favour a return to persecution* but as touched on in another thread, our Church and Christianity in general is becoming ever less entangled with civil authority with more and more legislation being enacted that is contrary to our beliefs. That is in effect is a move back towards the early days and I am far from convinced that it is an entirely bad thing.
I think the enacting of legislation contrary to our beliefs is a bad thing.

Pro-abortion legislation is not a good thing, is it?

The early Church, by my reckoning, was stronger and more able to resist persecutions.

Today's Catholics (myself included in many respects) have in general sold out. We are compromised.

And yes, I do blame that opening of windows that took place approx 50 years ago! The Church's guard was let down.

I'm sure the early Christians would not have watched Eastenders and Coronation Street!

Perhaps we could use a bit of persecution to wake us up. But I think we have been weakened too much. We have to live in the 21st century, see. That means we have to do the wrong thing frequently for a quiet life.

Even when occasionally a few Catholics do try to resist in some areas, they have other Catholics telling them they're being ridiculous. You don't have TV? You don't let your daughter dress like a prostitute? You don't let your kids listen to rap music? And you don't want them mixing with children who do these things? How old fashioned and judgemental!
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Rose of York
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Clare
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 10:46
And yes, I do blame that opening of windows that took place approx 50 years ago! The Church's guard was let down.

I'm sure the early Christians would not have watched Eastenders and Coronation Street.
What's new about Christians sinning? I was doing it every day, long before Vatican II.

I am in no position to comment on the sinfulness of watching Eastenders and Coronation Street. If and when I watch them I will be able to form a judgement.
Keep the Faith!

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Mairtin
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Clare
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 10:46
Pro-abortion legislation is not a good thing, is it?
I'd much rather see women rejecting abortion because we have convinced them that it is evil rather than them wanting abortion but not able to get it just because it's illegal.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Mairtin
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 11:33
Clare
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 10:46
Pro-abortion legislation is not a good thing, is it?
I'd much rather see women rejecting abortion because we have convinced them that it is evil rather than them wanting abortion but not able to get it just because it's illegal.
Ok, so we legalise murder and theft etc, so that people can refrain from doing them because they are wrong, rather than because they are illegal and they might go to prison. I'm sure the victims won't mind.

Anarchy!
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Rose of York
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 11:32
Clare
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 10:46
And yes, I do blame that opening of windows that took place approx 50 years ago! The Church's guard was let down.

I'm sure the early Christians would not have watched Eastenders and Coronation Street.
What's new about Christians sinning?
Sigh.

I don't think even sinners like us would be watching Eastenders and Coronation Street if we were being persecuted.

But, we won't be being persecuted while we follow the crowd.
S.A.G.

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Rose of York
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Clare
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 12:37
I don't think even sinners like us would be watching Eastenders and Coronation Street if we were being persecuted.
Clare I never watch soaps. As you seem to know what I do not know, about Eastenders and Coronation Street, I take it you are able to tell me what is so wicked about them.
Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Rose of York
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 14:28
Clare
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 12:37
I don't think even sinners like us would be watching Eastenders and Coronation Street if we were being persecuted.
Clare I never watch soaps. As you seem to know what I do not know, about Eastenders and Coronation Street, I take it you are able to tell me what is so wicked about them.
It might be easier to say what is right with them.

The Eastenders theme tune has a distinctive drumbeat.
The Coronation Street cat in the opening credits is nice (if it's the same opening sequence that I remember.)

And, er, that's about it.
S.A.G.

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Rose of York
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However we feel about soap operas, we are in danger of having yet another topic diverted.

Is Pope Benedict's future vision for the Church a return to where the Church was in its earliest days? How about some positive suggestions, rather than negative comments criticising the changes made in the past 40 years?

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I’ve mentioned in another thread that it is widely believed that Pope Benedict’s future vision for the Church is a return, not to where the Church was just prior to Vatican II but closer to what where she was in the very earliest days of the Church.

Bearing in mind the challenges the Church is presently facing, I’m wondering what changes people here would welcome and which ones they wouldn’t favour.
Keep the Faith!

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Mairtin
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Rose of York
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 16:16
However we feel about soap operas, we are in danger of having yet another topic diverted.

Is Pope Benedict's future vision for the Church a return to where the Church was in its earliest days? How about some positive suggestions, rather than negative comments criticising the changes made in the past 40 years?
Thank you, Rose.
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OsullivanB

1. Conciliar jurisdiction modelled onthe Council of Jerusalem.

2. Devolution to the lowest possibe level of all decisions. This is Church teaching but hard to discern in practice except for the not always welcome autonomy of parish priests.

3. More emphasis on works at local as well as international level.

4. Collective worship encouraged and facilitated in homes as well as churches.

Just some random jottings to try to expand the debate.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
I raised the subject of soap operas, among other things, for a relevant reason, which is, basically, that early Christians would have responded to them (or their equivalent in their day) differently from the way modern Christians do.

If we want to be like early Christians, we should avoid all these things, rather than embrace them like everyone else does.

We should avoid television in general, and newspapers, and all these things that push immoral messages and lies at the masses. And those Christians who are unwilling to sacrifice these things should not criticise those who at least want to try.
S.A.G.

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Mairtin
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Clare
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 12:35
Ok, so we legalise murder and theft etc, so that people can refrain from doing them because they are wrong, rather than because they are illegal and they might go to prison. I'm sure the victims won't mind.
The key difference is that the population at large generally recognise murder and theft as being wrong. We have failed miserably to convince them of our belief that abortion and various other things are also wrong. I'm simply suggesting that we might have more impact if we went the route of convincing people rather than focusing on getting legislation passed - convince the people and the legislation might follow.
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Mairtin
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Clare
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 16:32
If we want to be like early Christians, we should avoid all these things, rather than embrace them like everyone else does.
I find that idea interesting on a wider scale.

Do we have any evidence (e.g. in the writings of the Fathers) that early Christians withdrew from the Roman forms of entertainment such as the Games?
Edited by Mairtin, Saturday, 28. August 2010, 17:03.
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