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Back To The Future
Topic Started: Friday, 27. August 2010, 17:12 (916 Views)
Mairtin
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I’ve mentioned in another thread that it is widely believed that Pope Benedict’s future vision for the Church is a return, not to where the Church was just prior to Vatican II but closer to what where she was in the very earliest days of the Church.

Bearing in mind the challenges the Church is presently facing, I’m wondering what changes people here would welcome and which ones they wouldn’t favour.
Edited by Mairtin, Friday, 27. August 2010, 17:12.
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Derekap
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Frankly I don't know. However, I think in the very earliest days of the Church there would not be so much bureaucracy because it would be smaller and 'feeling its way'. Certainly the liturgy, teaching and rulings would be in the vernacular - not in a dead language.
Derekap
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Rose of York
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Mairtin
Friday, 27. August 2010, 17:12
Bearing in mind the challenges the Church is presently facing, I’m wondering what changes people here would welcome and which ones they wouldn’t favour.
One innovation repeatedly promised, but not materialised, in my diocese, is fhe formation of small groups in rural communities.

The situation where I live is:

One weekend Mass, Saturday vigil.
Currently, with a new parish priest, one weekday Mass, again at 6 pm.

6 pm is not a good time, because many work in the tourist industry. If they work days, it could be they finish work at 6, or in a pub that is opening time. There are others who travel to work at the regional hospital in the city. 6 pm is shift change time.

Rural communities are close. If our bishop would get this scheme going, or rather, ORDER parish priests to start it, Catholic children would have the chance to meet other Catholics of all ages. We could get together in a house, pray the rosary or Compline, some might want to gather for spontaneous prayer. Village halls are central, a small room would cost little. Those in isolated houses could easily get a lift, in small communities we look after each other. By meeting in the village hall, we would be seen to exist, we could put a poster up saying everybody is welcome to come along. I would suggest that in addition to prayer we also do things where we are just friends, having walks, pub lunches. That would be a great way of getting newcomers to get to know us all. When one is sick or bereaved the others would know and rally round. The Catholics in the area could lay on a small event, raise some money, donate it to the village playground association, be seen to care about all.

Build some small communities in the villages, that could be the nucleus for a new beginning. That is where the families are, who are miles from the city, enjoy being in a small community, that is where the vocations would come to light. No youngster would need to feel like a spare part in a big crowd.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

I do think small communities are the way forward (and this is how it was in the early church - house groups)

Quote:
 
Rural communities are close. If our bishop would get this scheme going, or rather, ORDER parish priests to start it, Catholic children would have the chance to meet other Catholics of all ages. We could get together in a house, pray the rosary or Compline, some might want to gather for spontaneous prayer. Village halls are central, a small room would cost little. Those in isolated houses could easily get a lift, in small communities we look after each other. By meeting in the village hall, we would be seen to exist, we could put a poster up saying everybody is welcome to come along. I would suggest that in addition to prayer we also do things where we are just friends, having walks, pub lunches. That would be a great way of getting newcomers to get to know us all. When one is sick or bereaved the others would know and rally round. The Catholics in the area could lay on a small event, raise some money, donate it to the village playground association, be seen to care about all.


Why does this need either the bishop or the priest? All it needs is for someone to do it.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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Gerry in my case it needs the bishop or priest to kick it off because like all parishes, initiative is hampered by a majority being apathetic, or resenting anybody but the chosen few having bright ideas, or saying we must ask Father first. Father might them chunter "yes good idea, leave it with me."

For me to start it I would need to identify who is within easy range of our village. There are three of us Catholics in our village. I think one would say there is no need, people can go Mass in town midweek. I cannot, workers cannot. The other would take the attitude that individuals should not do things off their own bat. I do not know who lives where, the only way to promote this would be through the newsletter, that requires co-operation of others.

I am talking about very small groups, one in this large village, one in that, have a presence. We are thin on the ground, some hamlets have no more than 20 residents, who can get to village halls. Small groups in places where people like to get to know each other, could lead to conversions and vocations. We all know what happends to acorns that land on fertile ground.
Keep the Faith!

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tomais

If change there is- it will be just that- change; there is and there cannot be any-" going back".Cognitive dissonence is yet another illusion..
Try being a child again.
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Derekap
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From perusing times of Holy Mass and normal availability of priests the actual times are often dictated by circumstances as well as ability to cover absences for illness or holidays. I have come across churches which already have Holy Mass on a weekday instead of Saturday or Sunday.
Derekap
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Mairtin
Friday, 27. August 2010, 17:12
Bearing in mind the challenges the Church is presently facing, I’m wondering what changes people here would welcome and which ones they wouldn’t favour.
Heh heh heh! Do I need to answer?? :tc:
S.A.G.

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Derekap
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No, Clare, I'm sure you would say bring back The Tridentine Holy Mass in Latin and abolish the Vernacular Ordinary Form. This despite the fact that Apostles would not use this rite and Latin was introduced in the days when it was the vernacular!
Derekap
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pete

Yesterday morning on the BBC news, they were discussing the Pope’s visit. They had an ex-nun whom they used as a modern typical Catholic; she was bent on changing the Church as we know it.
Her argument was that the reason so few Catholics attend Mass is because the Church will not change and join the 21st century. The way she was talking she sounded like a conformist in the Church of England. Women she said formed the largest congregation in our Churches but they are considered inferior to their male counterparts. She wanted women priests and for women to have a greater say in the Church. One of her friends has hired several busses with slogans written on the sides like We Want Women Priests, purposely for the Pope to see. She gave the impression that the majority of Catholics think the way she does. I thought the BBC were very one sided, they did show an old lady who was against what this ex-nun said, but she only had a few seconds of air time whilst the ex-nun was the main commentator and remained throughout the full programme.
If we are going to change I would much prefer to go backwards rather than follow the ideals of this Bulldozer, I can’t imagine why she left the convent :exclaim:


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Rose of York
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pete
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 00:22
If we are going to change I would much prefer to go backwards rather than follow the ideals of this Bulldozer, I can’t imagine why she left the convent :exclaim:


Mairtin is seeking our opinions regarding the Pope's reported future vision for a return to the way the Church was in the very early days.

What changes would you go for, Pete?
Mairtin
 
’ve mentioned in another thread that it is widely believed that Pope Benedict’s future vision for the Church is a return, not to where the Church was just prior to Vatican II but closer to what where she was in the very earliest days of the Church.

Bearing in mind the challenges the Church is presently facing, I’m wondering what changes people here would welcome and which ones they wouldn’t favour.
Keep the Faith!

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OsullivanB

Mass in underground cemeteries might be a draw for some.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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OsullivanB

That's part of the trouble, though. Once you start, where do you stop.

Plainly we are discriminated against because we no longer have the chance of glorious martyrdom in the arena due to the withdrawal of Imperial persecution in Western Europe.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Mairtin
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Clare
Friday, 27. August 2010, 22:33
Mairtin
Friday, 27. August 2010, 17:12
Bearing in mind the challenges the Church is presently facing, I’m wondering what changes people here would welcome and which ones they wouldn’t favour.
Heh heh heh! Do I need to answer?? :tc:
Why not, Clare? I for one would be very interested to hear a Traditionalist's views on what they would and would not find favourable about a return to the earliest ways of the Church.
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Mairtin
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OsullivanB
Saturday, 28. August 2010, 02:11
That's part of the trouble, though. Once you start, where do you stop.
Where do you think we should stop?

Quote:
 
Plainly we are discriminated against because we no longer have the chance of glorious martyrdom in the arena due to the withdrawal of Imperial persecution in Western Europe.

Fair enough, I don't think that any of us would favour a return to persecution* but as touched on in another thread, our Church and Christianity in general is becoming ever less entangled with civil authority with more and more legislation being enacted that is contrary to our beliefs. That is in effect is a move back towards the early days and I am far from convinced that it is an entirely bad thing.


*(Though, strangely enough, our Church has always seemed to thrive on persecution, I'm thinking of Penal times in Ireland as well as the early Church)
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