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| Turning the other cheek; is it obligatory, no ifs, no buts? | |
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| Topic Started: Tuesday, 24. August 2010, 18:14 (1,428 Views) | |
| Clare | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 20:12 Post #91 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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I believe what the Church has always taught, Mairtin. If the Church expands beyond Scripture, as She does when She elaborates on what is forbidden by the fifth commandment and what is not forbidden, and when she says self-defence is allowed, I think that that is a good reason for expanding beyond Scripture. Sola Scriptura is a Protestant error.
Again, I think having recourse to Church teaching is a perfectly good justification. |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Mairtin | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 20:20 Post #92 |
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My understanding was that something cannot qualify as Church teaching if it is different from what teh Church Fathers taught and did. Funnily enough, I think it was you who taught me that. |
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| Clare | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 20:25 Post #93 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Tell me where the Fathers unanimously agree with you and that they taught that we must never defend anyone else, Mairtin. I've done enough attempting to back up my assertions for the time being. |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Mairtin | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 21:31 Post #94 |
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I think this Wimbledon style rallying has far outlived any usefulness it might ever have had. I will just have to remain as bemused as ever as to how our Church can simply decide to dismiss the direct words of Christ. |
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| saundthorp | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 21:34 Post #95 |
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Of course you are not Clare. Am I right in thinking, Mairtin, from what you have said in these and other posts, you would not be prepared to take defensive action, under any circumstances and for whatever reason. If that is the case I have something to say about pacifism. I came across this analysis of pacifism. I have always had little time for pacifists. I feel they exist on the backs of men who are willing to die defending their freedom. The moral high ground they claim comes from standing on the backs of brave men. “Europeans apparently have never read John Stuart Mill: "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing is worth a war, is worse." "A man who cares more about his personal safety than anything else is a miserable creature who has no chance at being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than him." One of the most inspiring statements I have ever heard was made by an unnamed Polish man during their time under communist domination. “Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees” "And I submit to you that if a man has not discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live." (Martin Luther King) |
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Truth is still the truth even if no one believes it. Error is still error even if everyone believes it. (Archbishop Fulton Sheen) | |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 21:41 Post #96 |
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Administrator
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Here are some more words spoken by Christ. 12* "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13* Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 21:51 Post #97 |
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I note that: the Pole did not say "Better to kill on your feet" and Dr King did not say "...if a man has not discovered something that he will kill for, he isn't fit to live" What they did say seems irrelevant to this debate. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 21:53 Post #98 |
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Christ didn't say anything about harming anyone else in the process. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Mairtin | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 21:55 Post #99 |
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You mean like post #84 where I said ...
... ? I have made the point several times in this thread that what I am trying to get to is what is our Christian duty not what any of us would do in a particular circumstance but I guess that is beyond your comprehension.
Gratuitous insults do nothing for your argument, you know absolutely nothing of the motives that I or any any individual has in regard to pacifism. I guess that it is also beyond your comprehension that a stand for pacifism often requires a far higher level of bravery than simply running with the herd. |
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| saundthorp | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 22:14 Post #100 |
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Mairtin,
But you qualify your assertion that you would die in defence of your family. I'm not being gratuitously offensive, I am just exploring the implications of your stand, implications you find uncomfortable. That is your problem, not mine.
"simply running with the herd" That says it all about the type of person you are, Mairtin. |
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Truth is still the truth even if no one believes it. Error is still error even if everyone believes it. (Archbishop Fulton Sheen) | |
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 22:17 Post #101 |
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I had never thought of John Stuart Mill as a Catholic theologian before. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| saundthorp | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 22:20 Post #102 |
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I think those quotes of mine are very relevant OsullivanB, because as I said to Mairtin, I am exploring the logical conclusions of Mairtin's stand. |
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Truth is still the truth even if no one believes it. Error is still error even if everyone believes it. (Archbishop Fulton Sheen) | |
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| Mairtin | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 22:22 Post #103 |
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Let me reassure you that the only implications I find uncomfortable in this matter are those that impinge upon my already frail efforts to follow the path laid out by Christ. |
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| saundthorp | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 22:23 Post #104 |
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Oh, so we must only quote from Catholic theologians must we!
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Truth is still the truth even if no one believes it. Error is still error even if everyone believes it. (Archbishop Fulton Sheen) | |
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 26. August 2010, 22:23 Post #105 |
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They relate to dying for a reason. The debate is about killing or inflicting harm for a reason. I fail to see that a point favouring the first can legitimately be prayed in aid of the second. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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7:54 PM Jul 11