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Stem the Haemorrhage
Topic Started: Thursday, 12. August 2010, 12:41 (432 Views)
Rose of York
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Our parishes are bleeding to death, there is a haemorrhage, people flowing out of the veins, staying away from Mass, social events and meetings. Many of those people still identify themselves as Catholics.

Who tries to assess the most common causes of this? Who considers what remedial action can be taken?

I speak here, not of leafleting districts, notifying residents of Mass times, I speak of identifying the causes of departure, by people who love the Mass, continue trying to live by the principles taught by Christ. Leafleting can be useful, it may boost the numbers, but a piece of paper will not heal pain felt by a person who yearns to return but for some reason cannot bear to walk through the church doors.Some take the attitude "its up to them, we can't drag them back", I say we can help them back.

What do we do about it? Who should do something about it? The parish priest, or us?

If Joe Bloggs who was at Mass every Sunday, from babyhood to middle age, is suddenly absent who cares? Who should care?
Keep the Faith!

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Paduan
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Perhaps parishes should look into setting up a Landings programme for the lapsed in their area?

http://www.caseresources.org/Landings.htm
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
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Rose of York
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Paduan
Thursday, 12. August 2010, 13:56
Perhaps parishes should look into setting up a Landings programme for the lapsed in their area?

http://www.caseresources.org/Landings.htm
Rose of York
Thursday, 12. August 2010, 12:41


What do we do about it? Who should do something about it? The parish priest, or us?

If Joe Bloggs who was at Mass every Sunday, from babyhood to middle age, is suddenly absent who cares? Who should care?
Perhaps our bishops could ORDER parish priests to set up landings programmes.

They are the ones with the parish records, they know better than I who has stopped coming to Mass, and often they know why. We can do little without the leadership of our priests, and they need good leadership from their bishops.

I would start by getting rid of the term "the lapsed", it is another example of categorisation. Lapsation is a negative term, it smacks of loss of interest. Some are still committed to their Catholicism, they have been hurt, by events, harsh words or neglect within their parishes. Some are in difficult situations where there will be family tension if they attend Mass, these people are individuals, not lapsed Catholics. I am not getting at you, Paduan, the term "the lapsed" is in common use, but I personally find it revolting. Many non attenders want to come back. When a Methodist converts to Catholicism, we don't refer to him/her as a lapsed Methodist.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Paduan
Thursday, 12. August 2010, 13:56
Perhaps parishes should look into setting up a Landings programme for the lapsed in their area?

http://www.caseresources.org/Landings.htm
Does Catholic Agency for Service and Evangelisation still exist? I thought it had been wound up.
Keep the Faith!

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CARLO
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I see very little effort effort being made by the Clergy to help bring home the lapsed and far too much of the cheese lunch for unity type activity with other denominations.

We had a come back to Church for Christmas effort that was resonably successful but no follow up.

Woeful.

Pax

CARLO
Edited by CARLO, Thursday, 12. August 2010, 17:25.
Judica me Deus
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Rose of York
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Our chapel of ease is not listed in the phone book, because the telephone is in the presbytery of the parish church, miles away. When I suggested we advertise the chapel's existence, in local free directories the response was "if people are keen to come here they will make an effort and find us." One can hardly blame a person looking places of worship in Yellow Pages, seeing no Catholic Church listed for the town, believing there is none.

If those who make decisions can't be bothered making our presence known to residents in general, the chances are they will say Catholics who have left can make up their own minds, its up to them. The pubs and restaurants advertise their presence in the filling stations and shops. I pointed that out, and was told the Church is not a business.

Where is RCIA advertised? Inside churches. Who sees the posters? Mainly the people who don't feel the need to attend.

One bishop and two priests told me that, being a carer there is no reason why I should attend Mass, I am relieved of the obligation. Funny, that, the person I care for drives, goes out to lunch and meetings of an association with which he is involved. I have yet to hear a publican or restaraunteur urge us to stay away. Is there an agenda to empty small churches?
Keep the Faith!

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Derekap
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Whilst I do not intend to downgrade the importance and spiritual benefit of Holy Mass is there not a tendency to judge Catholics by their physical attendance at Holy Mass rather than also by their way of life. In my travels I have seen a number of Orthodox churches where there was a basic number of peope who seemed to stay a long time during their Sunday Liturgy - if not the whole time - but there seemed to be many many people who entered for a short stay of prayer and light a candle. Of course they have Holy Mass only once on Sunday mornings and it is within or the culmination of Sunday Morning Liturgy. I presume there is no Church Obligation to attend church on Sunday morning. Are they less likely to enter Heaven? I have been to Catholic Churches abroad, and also one in London, where people came in during Holy Mass, lit candles, prayed and left.

Derekap
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Rose of York
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Derekap
Thursday, 12. August 2010, 19:10
Whilst I do not intend to downgrade the importance and spiritual benefit of Holy Mass is there not a tendency to judge Catholics by their physical attendance at Holy Mass rather than also by their way of life.
I have known people who have not been to Mass for years, consider themselves to be Catholics, all it would take would be a little effort on the part of a parish to get some of these people back. Catholic Agency for Evangelisation say that for every person attending RCIA, 10 people drop away.
Keep the Faith!

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pat
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One of the primary works of the Legion of Mary is to go door to door, finding so called "lapsed" Catholics. A couple of years ago I did this in an area where the "sex industry" is rife, and a lot of residents were in catering jobs or the media. Most were completely amazed that the Catholic Church would even want them: more than once I knocked on a door and a young man would say "you wouldn't want me, I'm gay" and then we were able to tell them how much God loved them and wanted them to come to Him-he didn't slam the door, he thanked us! The important thing about this work is that it needs to be followed up; those people we visited need to know that we haven't forgotten them and that they will always be welcome. It's slow work but I think it's vital that each parish that has the Legion goes door to door - you never know who is behind each door waiting to be invited.

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Peter

The Legion of Mary is such a great organisation, it's such a pity that it's gone from a lot of parishes.

When I first became a catholic I joined The Legion. From memory there were at least a dozen of us, the meetings lasted about an hour and then we spent another evening each week visiting homes in the parish. I don't think there was ever a time that we weren't welcomed in to someones home and given a cup of tea, biscuits and even cake if we were lucky!

Life has undoubtedly changed since the last 60's, early 70's but underneath everything, surely we as people haven't. We still want to known that people care about us and will give up their time for us with no strings attached.

I was in The Legion for around 4 years during which time I met so many different people from different backgrounds and did things which I wouldn't have dreamed possible. Like attending a former Legion member's ordination in Rome and undertaking one of the readings. I made a couple of friendships, one of which has endured to this day. I was best man at my friend's wedding and he was at mine and my wife and I are God Parents to one of the children who is now 31! Although he and his wife live a long way from us, all 4 of us meet several times a year.

I have much to thank The Legion of Mary for. It taught me so much - about people and about myself. We give of ourselves when we join that organisation but surely what we receive is far greater.

I've said previously that I am fortunate enough to live in a good parish but we haven't got a Legion of Mary. I think I will ask the question why?

Peter
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Paduan
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I am just wondering... if we perceive that the hierarchy isn't responding adequately in the fields of evangelisation and mission to the unchurched-but-Catholic, why are we sitting around complaining about it? Why don't we just get up and do something ourselves? If priests and bishops don't like it, well tough.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
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Anne-Marie

Paduan
Friday, 13. August 2010, 10:15
Why don't we just get up and do something ourselves? If priests and bishops don't like it, well tough.
Quite, Paduan.

The trouble starts if you want/need to know details of former attendees - the priest has them;
Or if you want to put out literature in the parish's name, you really do need authorisation from the PP (like it or not).
There is much, in practice, that the PP can help or, should he choose, hinder.

Over even recent years I've seen the best (who are a joy to work with) and the worst (who I have sworn about).
Anne-Marie
FIAT VOLUNTAS DEI
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Rose of York
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Paduan
Friday, 13. August 2010, 10:15
I am just wondering... if we perceive that the hierarchy isn't responding adequately in the fields of evangelisation and mission to the unchurched-but-Catholic, why are we sitting around complaining about it? Why don't we just get up and do something ourselves? If priests and bishops don't like it, well tough.
Those who are Catholic are not unchurched. If I notice someone is missing, but we hardly know each other, a knock on the door (if I know where they live) could be regarded as intrusive and do more harm than good. I recall a friend phoning me, asking "are you two all right? I missed you, I was concerned." In a very small community, the parish priest should have noticed. What if we were missing because of some hurt, or worse if we had both been in a car smash and were both in intensive care?

We call a priest Father because he is supposedly the head of the parish family. May I suggest that if the pp is not responding adequately in the fields of evangelisation and mission to the unchurched parish statistics reveal the truth, and the bishop should be asking questions. I do not consider it acceptable to take the attitude that if the priest does not carry out his pastoral responsibilities we should shrug our shoulders and do it for him. I have my own jobs, I do my best for Catholics and others, but there are limits to my opportunities.

We can do more with good leadership than without it.
Keep the Faith!

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tomais

I have now answer to any of this;some may have but in an odd way; an historian might.
E.G. professor Tom Devine.
Alas in an extended intervies to day I cannot translate this piece to here; it is in todsya herald- the Heralds," Scottish review of Books"
Given the odd remark here I can anticipate some comment; but then I have gotten used to metropolitanism in the UK.
Such as Tom Devine replies to the questioning hints at fault lines in history as it is and has been taught. Tom Devine admits that much of his background comes from English or English taught historian- his approach is the "histoire totale"
With this im mindthe Church-churches are integrated parts of a consummerist sociey; this has been a development since the 1960s.
Think fashion/youth/music/TV/supermarkets; some may well then immediately think-oh of course Vat !!!
If so then think Cardinal Newman who was not exactly a new man circa the 60s.
No radical social changes in essential sociological forces in the UK coincided with the Oxford mouvement.In the UK? Yes this did have radical influences in Scotland too.
Sir walter Scott may have had he lived long enough become a Roman catholic.
I dodge off onto another line- or do I ?The Church is not a separate social entity from all of us and our environment.
proof?
In a oner- read and reread many of the posts here.
The Church being discussed here is the UK Church so it is and so it has been.
Cure? I have not a clue!
That then is the X Factor for the lot of us over time.
Nearly7 nine of the clock-something else to look at now.
Cheerio Folks
Tom
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pat
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Peter,it's good to hear about your experiences in the Legion of Mary. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say.In London, in parishes where the Legion is active, there have been a great many cases of people coming back to the faith, and converting from other religions (I've just read a report from one of our praesidia where this has happened). This is due to the hard work that people have put in, knocking on doors, listening to people, treating them with compassion and love.

Of course, none of this work can be done without the permission of the parish priest - when we go about setting up a praesidium in a new parish, the best way to sell it is to point to the work done, show Fr A what happens in Fr B's parish, where the Legion is active and fully supportive of him.

There is a place for the large scale media adverts and centralised courses, but I really believe that talking to people on an individual basis, with respect and love, is what wins souls.
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