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| Topic Started: Tuesday, 1. June 2010, 12:27 (2,135 Views) | |
| Clare | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 08:39 Post #91 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Hegelian? |
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| Derekap | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 15:39 Post #92 |
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Hegelian? Is this the name of a person, a heresy or what? Please, Clare, explain to the ignoramus (me)! |
| Derekap | |
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| Mairtin | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 17:15 Post #93 |
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They don't say that it's support for abortion, Rose - no matter what people think about the Tablet, I doubt if any of them would seriously argue that it is claiming the Pope supports abortion! This is touching on one of the areas where I think the pro-life movements are falling down. Obama supports "the woman's right to choose" - and that is naturally abhorrent to us Catholics - but he is at the same time introducing measures aimed at reducing the number of women actually seeking abortion. The pro-life movements give him no credit for that, all they seem to care about is the fact that he has supported the existing legislation and to some extent made abortion more easily available for those who do want it. In their view, there is no 'half way house' on abortion and they prefer to lambast Obama as a baby butcher. I disagree with them. I think we have to face up to the fact that we are not going to get abortion legislation reversed overnight, that we must keep fighting to achieve that but whilst we are doing that, we should encourage every move that reduces the actual number of abortions being carried out - every abortion prevented is a baby saved. As I understand it, the Tablet view is about the same as may own and they are reading the Pope's words as coming close to also supporting that view. |
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| Mairtin | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 17:16 Post #94 |
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No, Catholic. |
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| Clare | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 17:55 Post #95 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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It most certainly is not Catholic. At least, no Catholic from before 1960 would have recognised it as such. |
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| Clare | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 17:59 Post #96 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis What the Pope said:
Whereas St Paul said:
It evidently escaped St Paul that his great challenge was for Belial and Christ to come together and discover their true identity.
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| PJD | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 17:59 Post #97 |
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Religious Education Series – “Totalitarian State” (Hegel) – RE Tract No. 148 ETHICS - HEGEL THE ETHICAL STATE (ACCORDING TO HEGEL’S PHILOSOPHY) "The State is the self-conscious ethical substance, the unification of the family principle with that of civil society" (Encyclopaedia of Philosophical Science § 535). "The laws express the special provisions for objective freedom" (see §538). "As a living mind, the state only is as an organized whole, differentiated into particular agencies, which, proceeding from the one notion (though not known as notion) of the reasonable will, continually produce it as their result. […] The constitution is the articulation or organisation of the state-power […].The constitution is existent justice - the actuality of liberty in the development of all its reasonable provisions, § 539). These expressions used by Hegel summarise his philosophy on the State and on Justice. The state is the only institution fully expressing rationality and free will, through the drafting of laws and by exercising power. Individuals, families and religious communities are totally subordinated to the law and the power of the state. During the last century, the literal implementation of Hegel’s theories led to abuse by totalitarian Nazi and communist regimes, to concentration camps, to ethnic cleansing, genetic selection and the elimination of religion from all forms of public life. Hegel was not the first to formulate the theory of state totalitarianism. These principles were already present in the Greek world, often conflicting with the primacy of the individual, the family and religious communities. In the Book of Exodus in the Bible, the God-fearing midwives and even the Pharaoh’s daughter did not obey the pharaoh’s order to kill all the Jewish baby boys and saved Moses’ life. In the first book of Chronicles, King David ordered a census of families and of the population to give orders and then severely punished by God with all his people. The primacy of the individual, the family and the religious communities regards to the state becomes in turn the primacy of natural law over positive law, which when legislating must have the first as a reference point and guarantee the dignity and freedom of individuals, families and Churches. The freedom of religion and of the Church is the last reference and a guarantee for all dignity and respect of human rights. The totalitarian idea of the state also crops up in a subtle manner within the democratic system, through the unconditional affirmation of positive law. Parliaments approve by a majority the assassination of children, elderly people and the sick, genetic manipulation, the management of the human body, sexual life, and homosexual partnerships. A kind of explicit insistence in legislating against the traditional family, the inviolability of the individual and of human life, the Church’s freedom, hides an intention to establish total domination over humankind. All super-national institutions, international financial and communications groups demand to exercise absolute power, managing to influence also local and national legislation, thereby achieving their aims (Source: Video Conf. 10/2004 – Fr.Paolo Scarafoni - Rector of the pontifical university regina apostolorum) |
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| Rose of York | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 18:16 Post #98 |
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Administrator
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Mairtin I can see your point. Calling Obama a baby butcher will only antagonise the pro abortion camp. We need to work on the generation who are of an age to have children, gradually convert them to the knowledge that no baby should ever be deliberately killed in the womb. Apparent hatred of people who agree with abortion will have a negative impact. Somehow we should be aiming at helping the mothers and also in some cases the fathers, find a moral way out of any practical problems that lead them to think abortion is the only way. They would be more likely to listen if all of the bishops in England, Wales and Ireland followed the lead of the Scottish Cardinal who set up an organisation that gives practical and financial help to girls who wanted to keep their babies, but whose families could not or would not be supportive. There are some who grew up in care, so no parental support. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Mairtin | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 19:46 Post #99 |
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I guess that brings a whole new meaning to the expression "Is the Pope Catholic?" |
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| Mairtin | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 19:48 Post #100 |
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It's not just that, Rose, I see it more a difference between feeling self-righteous and actually unborn saving babies. |
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| Clare | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 21:20 Post #101 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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No it doesn't. I could quote plenty of papal statements that I doubt you would recognise as Catholic; would that make those popes not Catholic? The fact is, things that this pope has said, on many occasions, contradict things his predecessors have said. |
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| Clare | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 21:23 Post #102 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Now who's judging? Perhaps, when Our Lord drove the money-lenders out of the Temple, He did it so He would feel good about Himself. I'm sure He alienated a lot of people when He did it. Quite counterproductive! |
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| Clare | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 22:10 Post #103 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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This is more like it.
Pope St Pius X, in Our Apostolic Mandate where he has a go at the Sillon. He also wrote of the Sillon:
Anyone would think liberal and Protestant concepts were a bad thing! Now, he was a Pope, so I'm sure everyone here agrees with him! |
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| Mairtin | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 22:18 Post #104 |
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Feel free, Clare, to give us some examples of where the pro-life movement has reversed any abortion legislation or achieved something that has actually reduced the numbers of abortions. |
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| Clare | Tuesday, 8. June 2010, 22:26 Post #105 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Oh, so if they don't succeed, they're only doing it to feel self-righteous. I see. People who fail are self-righteous. Now I get it. This is ignoring the fact that there have actually been success stories. People praying the rosary outside abortion clinics have managed to make some women re-consider. There's more to it than calling Obama a baby butcher. Anyhow, has your preferred method proved successful, Mairtin? |
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7:53 PM Jul 11