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| Hans Kung's Open Letter | |
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| Topic Started: Saturday, 17. April 2010, 00:19 (4,286 Views) | |
| OsullivanB | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 10:41 Post #76 |
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St Paul appears to think differently, as do other writers of the Bible. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Gerard | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 10:51 Post #77 |
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OsB Happy to engage on that, but wish to read what PJD has to say first. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 14:57 Post #78 |
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He might care to offer his thoughts on Holy Mass at the same time. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Clare | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 15:10 Post #79 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Funny. The Douay renders that verse thus:
and this is the footnote:
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Gerard | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 15:22 Post #80 |
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Clare, Just shows the lengths people (even people in authority) are prepared to go to in order to prop up their pet "dogmas". Even when they are neither dogmas nor doctrines but just a human rule. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 15:30 Post #81 |
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Both are legitimate translations and both have had their champions for many centuries, according to the Ignatius commentary, which is quite long on this point, and which I don't have time to type now. The Greek is adelphen gunaika. "Gyne" can mean (among other things!) woman, lady, wife, mistress, widow,or servant. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Gerard | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 15:38 Post #82 |
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Equally likely to have been mistress then? Now, Scripture says Peter has a mother in law and later He takes around with him either: a woman, a mistress, a widow, a female servant or a wife Which is the more likely? The problem for the "Peter was not married brigade" is that they have to explain away two different and rather simple texts that say he was. Gerry Edited by Gerard, Thursday, 22. April 2010, 15:39.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 15:40 Post #83 |
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OsB Is "sister" a legitimate translation? Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 15:56 Post #84 |
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Yes. It is the literal meaning of "adelphe(n)", familiar to us from "Philadelphia", the city of brotherly love. So adelphen gunaika = sister wife/woman/... |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 15:58 Post #85 |
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No, of course they are not equally likely. I posted the range given in order simply to illustrate that translators very often have to make a judgment about which of a range of possiblities constitutes the best rendering of a word. Translating is more art than science, and this is quite a good illustration of why. Incidentally it is the same Greek word that Jesus uses when addressing Mary at Cana as "woman". |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Gerard | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 16:11 Post #86 |
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That was rather my point OsB, which was more likely a woman or a wife (or a woman meaning wife - which we still use today) All modern translations plump for wife - because they judge that the more likely choice. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 16:15 Post #87 |
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A rare example of the accurate application of the saying "your guess is as good as mine". |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Clare | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 16:54 Post #88 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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It doesn't seem that great a length to me, Gerry. I suppose Hans Kung does not have any pet "dogmas", and does not go to any great lengths to prop them up.
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Mairtin | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 19:22 Post #89 |
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And Holy Water. |
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| PJD | Thursday, 22. April 2010, 19:31 Post #90 |
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"It seems logical to me that the second person of the Trinity would not take a human wife." I agree Gerry on this point. It is true that Christ was perfectly human and, in a similar line of sense as Gerry used above, it seems logical that the Second Person of the Trinity would not take upon Himself the act of sinning. All of us sin, but Jesus never did - which does not take anything away from His total experience of humanity. PJD |
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7:54 PM Jul 11