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| Hans Kung's Open Letter | |
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| Topic Started: Saturday, 17. April 2010, 00:19 (4,282 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 01:43 Post #136 |
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Pztrick if Hans Kung really did write, as Pope John Paul II lay on his deathbed, that he had become "the symbol of a fraudulent church that has calcified and become senile." I find that pretty offensive. The appearance of the Pope made him appear to be calcified and senile. It seems a bit callous, taking advantage of that to criticise a dying man. It would have been better to publish a calm analysis of what he perceived to be problems with the Pontificate, and to leave it until a period of mourning had passed, after the Pope's death. Searching to find other items about Hans Kung I found a review of his book My Struggle for Freedom – A Memoirhttp://www.internetlogic.org/ARCC/connorkung.html He does seem an odd character. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Angus Toanimo | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 02:58 Post #137 |
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Link to original article written by Hans Kung in Der Spiegel, in English: http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,348471,00.html |
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| Gerard | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 07:35 Post #138 |
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This is from the article above, which was published in 2005: I consider it prophetic.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Clare | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 10:19 Post #139 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Twaddle! How can
be
of something that had been going on for centuries without those consequences, rather than consequences of something new that took place in the last 50 years or so? Gerry, I do not consider exhorting the Church to conform Herself to the world's standards to be prophetic. |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Angus Toanimo | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 10:22 Post #140 |
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It's part of the whole vitriolic attack on the Church and your beloved John Paul the Great. Kung is a modern day Martin Luther. A heretic. He was one of the periti at VII that plotted the destruction of the Catholic Church. Where Fr Ratzinger saw the error of his thinking, Kung never has. |
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| Gerard | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 13:24 Post #141 |
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Clare, In criticising compulsory celibacy and lobbying for married priests Kung is not conforming to the world but rather, conforming to the Churches own standards. It was the culture for the first millenium and is still the culture in the Orthodox Church. Compulsory celibacy was introduced for worldy reasons - to protect the church's money. Gerry Edited by Gerard, Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 13:29.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 13:26 Post #142 |
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Though you judge him a heretic Patrick the Church has not. Kung was never excommunicated. Lefebvre was. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Clare | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 18:20 Post #143 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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As if that's all that Hans Kung wants! Abortion, contraception, women priests. Those are certainly demands that the Church conform to the world.
Evidence for this assertion, please? |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Clare | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 18:24 Post #144 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Ostensibly, but by the Pope whom Hans Kung decried as "the symbol of a fraudulent church that has calcified and become senile." As I said, he was wrong about practically everything, but he was right, IMHO, in his assessment of Pope John Paul II's pontificate as "a disaster". Hans Kung would certainly have been condemned as a heretic and excommunicated in more enlightened times, anyway. |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Angus Toanimo | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 18:26 Post #145 |
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I know the Vatican hasn't - yet. But, just because the Pope or the CDF hasn't excommunicated him, it doesn't mean that Holy Mother Church hasn't. Someone who denies the Dogma of Papal Infallibility is a heretic and can be excommunicated latae setentiae.
See above. It's a possibility.
Prove it. |
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| Gerard | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 19:04 Post #146 |
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O.K. DECREE OF EXCOMMUNICATION POPE BENEDICT LIFTS EXCOMMUNICATION OF FOUR BISHOPS Gerry Edited by Gerard, Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 19:33.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Clare | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 20:14 Post #147 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Yes, and Pope John Paul II declared that women's ordination isn't up for discussion, but that doesn't stop you discussing it, Gerry. Are those two documents the only papal declarations you accept? |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Angus Toanimo | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 20:18 Post #148 |
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I ask you for proof, and you present me with a document from Cardinal Ganitin, confirming a latae setentiae excommunication, followed by a report of the lifting the excommunication? As far as most learned men are concerned, the excommunication never occurred, since +Lefebvre did not ordain bishops without Papal Mandate with a view to giving them a mission, or jurisdiction, and in not doing so, did not set up another Church, therefore the consecrations did NOT constitute a schismatic act but an act of disobedience. An act of disobedience is purely a disciplinary matter. And in any case, what has the lifting of the alleged excommunications by the Holy Father got to do with Archbishop Lefebvre? And no response to your man Kung proven a heretic? |
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| Gerard | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 20:32 Post #149 |
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See post number 142 above. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Rose of York | Wednesday, 18. August 2010, 20:50 Post #150 |
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Pope John Paul II may have meant it was not up for discussion as a possible change. We are free people, I think it unlikely any Pope would forbid people to hold conversations on any subject. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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7:54 PM Jul 11