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Services of Word and Holy Communion; commonly called "Eucharistic Services"
Topic Started: Monday, 23. April 2007, 23:55 (2,639 Views)
newminster
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The wording and actions of the Communion Service are determined by authorised persons.
The point is, Eve, are they?
And who is 'authorised'? Different churches have different formats for their Communion Services. Different bishops take different views on when and whether there should be Communion at Services of the Word. Or whether there should be such services at all.
My reading of the Vatican rulings is that Communion Services are not to be encouraged except in cases of dire necessity and that the Vatican does not believe that such cases exist anywhere in western Europe or north America. However, local bishops have, in accordance with the long-standing practice that the bishop is virtually master in his own diocese, been permitted to allow such services where they feel it is necessary simply because you cannot legislate for every eventuality.
But it is still clear in my mind -- and was long before I got involved in this debate -- that the Vatican never ever envisaged that the indult would be used for any purpose other than to provide a (barely acceptable) substitute for Holy Mass in those parts of the world where weekly Mass was an impossibility.
In some ways I find it depressing that we are having this debate at all; it strikes me that we are in danger of treating the Church as a sort of spiritual Tesco and the Mass and Communion as commodities to be instantly available at our pleasure.
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Rose of York
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newminster
May 7 2007, 12:07 PM
Different bishops take different views on when and whether there should be Communion at Services of the Word. Or whether there should be such services at all.

Do the people who do nothing about it, get the bishops they deserve?

Its "not done to complain about Father". As for complaining about a bishop, well, that is a biggy. The person complaining would be ostracised for life. There are people who assume that by default a bishop is a saint.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
May 7 2007, 02:33 PM
newminster
May 7 2007, 12:07 PM
Different bishops take different views on when and whether there should be Communion at Services of the Word. Or whether there should be such services at all.

Do the people who do nothing about it, get the bishops they deserve?

Its "not done to complain about Father". As for complaining about a bishop, well, that is a biggy. The person complaining would be ostracised for life. There are people who assume that by default a bishop is a saint.

IMHO, it is not so much being unwilling to complain about Father, as being totally unaware that the widespread use of Communion Services when the PP is unavailable for Mass is contrary to any directive.
KatyA
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nelly k

Ive been dipping in and out of this one , something bothers me... my Mum was a daily Communicant, my Dad still , for most of the time is ... but sometimes it is a Communion Service...
Now for whatever people think, this was and is an essential part of many peoples lifes, my Mums health was very poor , but she started the day with Mass... it helped and encouraged her to get up and dressed, dressing took an age and was hard work... my Dad needs the routine, agian it makes him get up and organised, he also Gets Communion, which I believe he needs , he hears the word of God... but Communion is the Gift of life ... thats how Iunderstand it... would he go if there was no Sacrament ... I dont think so... because central to our Faith is the Eucharist..... I dont want to go down the road that if no Priest we dont have this Sacrement... I dont think we should have Meetings as my Christian Friend refers to there Sunday worship... just my thoughts on this... nelly
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Rose of York
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Nelly would your parents go to the Church daily, if there were prayers such as Rosary or the Divine Office? "Meetings" are held in some protestant churches, as normal Sunday worship. We have Mass on Sundays, but before the rule about fasting before midnight was relaxed there were no evening Masses. Benediction, Novenas and Rosary were very popular. Our church used to be packed to the door for the Monday Novena to Our Lady of Lourdes.

However we feel, the Vatican has laid down a strict rule, and it is not for priests to decide for themselves whether to obey.
Keep the Faith!

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Joseph

Eve
May 7 2007, 10:04 AM
Joseph
May 3 2007, 10:59 PM
My 'suggestion' implied nothing of the sort "that the laity have a greater involvement than what is the reality" but rather it was an 'observation' that in the form JARay conducts it (and maybe others too) their is little to distinguish them  other than the two major points I outlined. 

I find the similarity rather disturbing!  Even more so in that these services can and are conducted at times not only by 'non-vested' Lay Ministers but by Instituted Acolytes (in countries were they have them - of course) and possibly by vested senior altar servers/EMHCs, and by Permanent Deacons. 

Permanent Deacons are ordained clergy. Instituted Acolytes have wider responsibilities than altar servers. Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are commissioned by bishops. Cardinal Arinze tells us the circumstances in which Communion Services may be held. The wording and actions of the Communion Service are determined by authorised persons.
Eve
Sep 27 2006, 10:13 PM
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Sorry Eve, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say in that Post. It reads to me as some sort of condemnation, but I feel there must be some misunderstanding and that comments are being taken out of context.

The first paragraph you quote above, was part of my response to Alan’s post of May 1 2007, 01:26am - a post which Alan possibly made without having read the all-important Root message Link http://tinyurl.com/3xtlrs (which sets the context for the entire thread) and I hoped Alan would have subsequently replied to my response.

My comment in the second paragraph, that “I find the similarity rather disturbing!” needs to be read in full appreciation of the thread’s context, namely that of the danger of Communion services (in some instances) becoming almost indistinguishable from the Holy Mass. Hence my concern - which is not at all about Communion services that comply fully with the directions and guidance of the Vatican, concerning their content, Liturgy and justification for being held.

I am sure most if not all of us are well aware of the points you made in :-
Quote:
 
Permanent Deacons are ordained clergy. Instituted Acolytes have wider responsibilities than altar servers. Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are commissioned by bishops. Cardinal Arinze tells us the circumstances in which Communion Services may be held. The wording and actions of the Communion Service are determined by authorised persons.

I hope you don't feel we are not giving those facts due recognition in any way (even though the last one has been queried).
Joseph
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Joseph

Rose of York
May 7 2007, 02:05 AM
...It is pretty obvious that if you think abuses have occured you have a no choice but to report the matter.  Well?  What are you going to do about it?

What am I going to do about it?

Nothing!

I'm going to leave them in peace, and push off to Fatima later today! :)

God Bless!

Joseph
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Rose of York
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Joseph
May 8 2007, 12:54 AM
Rose of York
May 7 2007, 02:05 AM
...It is pretty obvious that if you think abuses have occured you have a no choice but to report the matter.  Well?  What are you going to do about it?

What am I going to do about it?

Nothing!

I'm going to leave them in peace, and push off to Fatima later today! :)

God Bless!

As I said to Carlo a few hours ago:

scaredy cat!

:rofl:

Enjoy Fatima and please say one for me and mine.
Keep the Faith!

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Joseph

Joseph
May 8 2007, 12:44 AM
...Sorry Eve, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say in that Post.  It reads to me as some sort of condemnation, but I feel there must be some misunderstanding and that comments are being taken out of context...

Any response to my reply of May 8 2007, Eve?
Joseph
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Eve
Former Admin/Moderator
Joseph this led me to understand that you considered it wrong for Permanent Deacons and Instituted Acolytes (and others) to conduct services they are allowed to conduct in certain circumstances The authorization comes from The Holy See.

"I find the similarity rather disturbing! Even more so in that these services can and are conducted at times not only by 'non-vested' Lay Ministers but by Instituted Acolytes (in countries were they have them - of course) and possibly by vested senior altar servers/EMHCs, and by Permanent Deacons"
Howdy Folks. Has anybody seen my husband lately?
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Rose of York
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The few Communion Services I attended were "run" ( for want of a better word) by EMHCs, smartly dressed but not wearing any kind of vestments. I have never heard of servers doing this. If it were impossible for my parish to have Sunday Mass, and a Deacon presided over such a service, I hope he WOULD be correctly vested. I have seen a photograph of an Institued Acolyte preparing for a Communion Service. He wore an alb.
Keep the Faith!

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Joseph

Eve
May 17 2007, 11:03 AM
Joseph this led me to understand that you considered it wrong for Permanent Deacons and Instituted Acolytes (and others) to conduct services they are allowed to conduct in certain circumstances  The authorization comes from The Holy See.

"I find the similarity rather disturbing!  Even more so in that these services can and are conducted at times not only by 'non-vested' Lay Ministers but by Instituted Acolytes (in countries were they have them - of course) and possibly by vested senior altar servers/EMHCs, and by Permanent Deacons"

Eve, you have amazed me in drawing that conclusion from my original post on May 3 2007, 10:59 PM.

I wonder if Alan thought the same, since he never responded to my reply? (I must try harder to be less ambiguous) :(

My comment that "I find the similarity rather disturbing!" referred directly to the root Topic and the dangers of the two celebrations being seen to be coming ever closer due to the way some Communion services are being conducted. As far as I am aware this should not be a problem with those services conducted strictly in accordance with Vatican Guidelines, irrespective of who conducts them - though I have no personal experience of any of these, never having been present at one.

Joseph
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Rose of York
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Joseph
May 18 2007, 12:22 AM
As far as I am aware this should not be a problem with those services conducted strictly in accordance with Vatican Guidelines, irrespective of who conducts them - though I have no personal experience of any of these, never having been present at one.

Do some parishes have Communion services not conducted according to the guidelines?

Joseph, how can you worry so much about Communion services if you have never been to one? Its like reviewing a book before reading it.

Calm down, you may have the wrong impression.

Keep the Faith!

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Joseph

Rose of York
May 18 2007, 12:48 AM
Joseph
May 18 2007, 12:22 AM
As far as I am aware this should not be a problem with those services conducted strictly in accordance with Vatican Guidelines, irrespective of who conducts them - though I have no personal experience of any of these, never having been present at one.

Do some parishes have Communion services not conducted according to the guidelines?

Come on Rose, you must have read about them - even if only in this thread!

Rose of York
May 18 2007, 12:48 AM
Calm down, you may have the wrong impression.

Not at all, but I'm perfectly calm - as always :)


Joseph
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Alan
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Joseph
May 17 2007, 11:22 PM

I wonder if Alan thought the same, since he never responded to my reply? (I must try harder to be less ambiguous) :(

Joseph,

I did not reply because I could not understand where you were coming from and I had no wish to become embroiled in an argument on the matter.

Leading on from there, it is very easy to be "critical" of weekday services of Word and Holy Communion.

There is an old adage "Practice makes perfect". when I trained as a leader it was definitely pointed out that the norm was for such services to be held on Sundays when no priest was available to celebrate Mass.

I was not happy with this instruction as I felt it was wrong to train anybody for a role which they may use sometime in the future.

About 18 months after my appointment and training I had a phone call very early on a Sunday to say our priest had been admitted to hospital and asking me to organise and lead a Service of Word and Holy Communion. I had to contact an EMHC and ask him to drive 25 miles away to collect Hosts which were Consecrated for our use. Yes he had a 50 mile round trip.

At the same time I was preparing the Prayers of the faithful and ensuring that the Service I was to lead was celebrated with due reverence.

Can you imagine what would have happened if after my training and commissioning I had simply put everything away to be used eighteen months later.

In our parish we were authorised to have the weekday services.

God Bless all who visit this forum,

Alan.

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