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| Services of Word and Holy Communion; commonly called "Eucharistic Services" | |
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| Topic Started: Monday, 23. April 2007, 23:55 (2,640 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Saturday, 5. May 2007, 23:00 Post #61 |
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Has that happened in churches in Britain? I understand that if a Bishop feels he has no prospect of having regular Sunday Mass offered in all church buildings in a geographical area, he closes one down, being careful to select a church where there is another within reasonable travelling distance. That happened to a church a few miles from ours. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Saturday, 5. May 2007, 23:00 Post #62 |
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The whole thing boils down to disobedience of instructions from the Vatican. |
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| Joseph | Sunday, 6. May 2007, 11:49 Post #63 |
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I'm looking forward to that Rose. It is a fairly lengthy read, but it is worth the effort for the unusual views it sheds on Mass and Communion - I feel sure you will find them so. :) |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 6. May 2007, 14:37 Post #64 |
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Joseph I made my observation at 11 pm last night. So far as I am concerned the only things worth saying are: It may be that these services could legitimately be offered in the jungle, the desert, the Arctic, the Antarctic, offshore islands with no priest, theatres of war, or, if consecrated hosts are available, in rare grave emergency in the developed world. In most instances where they are taking place, that is forbidden and Catholics are duty bound to report the matter to their Bishop (which I did, and I was satisfied with the result). In situations where they take place legitimately, the faithful should be told, this is no substitute for the Holy Mass. So, what is left to discuss? I can only suggest that if you know of this happening, illicitly, you report the matter to your Bishop and if he fails to take appropriate action, take it further. Would you be willing to do that? |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Derekap | Sunday, 6. May 2007, 18:03 Post #65 |
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" Hmm! I presume you mean the 'sharing a meal' aspect, rather than the Holy Mass itself Derek - it would be hardly possible to give too much importance to that!" I agree with you Joseph. When responding I overlooked mention of that aspect of his dissertation. |
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| Deleted User | Sunday, 6. May 2007, 18:04 Post #66 |
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I was without access to my computer for most of yesterday (and suffering serious withdrawal symptoms) so I haven't had time to return to the article. However, I recall that references to gathering together and sharing a meal reminded me of the appalling "Happy Meal" analogy used in children's catechises a few years ago. |
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| newminster | Sunday, 6. May 2007, 19:34 Post #67 |
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When this situation does detetiorate to the point where there are insufficient priests to provide a Sunday Mass (by whatever way you define Sunday) in an appropriate number of churches in a diocese (by whatever way you define appropriate) then will be the time to authorise some other form of liturgical celebration. At the moment we have more than enough bishops doing a poor imitation of Chicken Licken or obeying Robert Heinlein's maxim 'When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout'. Unless I'm very much mistaken, it has already been made clear by the Vatican in several Instructiones, of which my good friend Redemptionis Sacramentum was only one of the most recent, that it was precisely those circumstances for which the dispensation for Communion services was envisaged. What was never envisaged was that they would become something close to the norm in parishes in the western world where parishioners are not being threatened with an inability to carry out their weekly obligation. Not to mention the Sign of Peace! Of course the similarity is inevitable and as Richstatter points out, or at the very least implies, there are people who actually prefer the Communion service because it's shorter (also you don't have to put up with a homily or as is becoming increasingly common two or three mini-homilies). So why not just let the priest stroll in every now and again, say a Mass, consecrate a batch of hosts and then just leave us to our own devices? Anyone seriously argue that there is not a danger of our heading down that road? Coming to the crunch here, Carlo, I think. Bad catechesis. Of which there is a lot about. Keep hammering at this one, Rose. One day we'll win the argument. But when you are starting from the basis that the priest himself almost insists on a 'Service of the Word and Communion' every day that he is out of the parish (except for Saturdays of course) it's an uphill struggle. There is a divergence of expectation in this subject and I'm not sure where it has come from. Carlo makes the good point about those who are almost obsessed with advancing lay participation. RS makes the point that participation does not have to mean being busy-busy the whole time. EMHCs, singers, musicians, greeters, passkeepers, cleaners, sacristans, special charities organisers, oh how wonderful that we lay people are all busy participating. We cannot have Communion Services as a right. We have no obligation to attend Mass daily (much as we may wish or strive to); the bishop has no obligation to provide us with Mass daily (much as he may do his best to). Since Communion is an integral part of the Mass it follows that we have no right to demand and the bishop has no responsibility to provide a sort of 'Mass-lite' in order to satisfy our desires as consumers, because that is what we are making ourselves into in this context. |
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| CARLO | Sunday, 6. May 2007, 22:09 Post #68 |
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Newminster It is so good to hear from you. What an excellent posting. I agree 100% Te Deum Laudamus To God be praise CARLO |
| Judica me Deus | |
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| newminster | Sunday, 6. May 2007, 22:49 Post #69 |
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Kind of you, Monsignor. Actually I thought I went on a bit! :blink: |
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| Joseph | Monday, 7. May 2007, 00:28 Post #70 |
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I think most of us are agreed that weekday Communion services are non-runners, and that Sunday and Holyday Communion services are not yet required in most of our parishes. However, the article this thread relates to http://tinyurl.com/3xtlrs demonstrates the problems that can result from allowing such services to become the norm (which seems to be happening now in the States and may be about to happen here - we’ve already had a week of them in a local parish). Some of the observations it offers, on both the Mass and Communion services, are to me, worthy of consideration and possible comment. Here are some examples:-
I think we all agree with that last remark, don't we? But do we agree on most of the other points listed above? (Apologies re the length and the highlights, but I think it covers the most interesting aspects of the article.) |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 7. May 2007, 01:15 Post #71 |
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Who says we all agree? I know Catholics who would disgree! I cannot speak for other members of this forum. |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 7. May 2007, 01:23 Post #72 |
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This is how I interpret the quotation:
What are the current instructions from the Vatican, re laity distributing the Eucharist? The Vatican approves, in certain circumstances. There is no total ban. The Church is open to the promptings of the Spirit. That is one reason why the policy of this forum, is acceptance of liturgical Rites and practices approved by the Vatican. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 7. May 2007, 02:05 Post #73 |
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Joseph you say a local parish had Communion services for a week! That is forbidden! Are you prepared to report that to your Bishop, and if that does not produce results, to the Apostolic See? Here is my offer: If you do not want to do it yourself, you may send me a private message, giving the name, address and telephone number of the parish, an email address if you know of one, the name of the parish priest, and the dates and times when those services took or are taking place. Also if the parish has a website, you may give me the url. I am willing to contact your bishop and ask him to make inquiries. If the bishop does not send a satisfactory reply, I will take the matter to the Apostolic See. That will be more effective than making these reports, about an unnamed parish, on a discussion forum.
It is pretty obvious that if you think abuses have occured you have a no choice but to report the matter. Well? What are you going to do about it? |
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| Deacon Robert | Monday, 7. May 2007, 02:17 Post #74 |
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Let me jump in for a moment. Weekday communion services are NOT the norm in the US. The Bishops of the US have prohibited weekday comunion services and most Dioceses are following the directive. S.C.A.P. ( Sunday comunion in absence of a Priest) are extremely rare in most cities. In places where a single Priest services multiple churches, sometimes 50 to 100 miles apart, they are permitted. Even then the Bishops will not allow, and rightfully so, a comunion service and a Eucharistic service in the same Parish on the same day. Also IF the leader is a Deacon there will probably be a homily. |
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| Eve | Monday, 7. May 2007, 10:04 Post #75 |
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Permanent Deacons are ordained clergy. Instituted Acolytes have wider responsibilities than altar servers. Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are commissioned by bishops. Cardinal Arinze tells us the circumstances in which Communion Services may be held. The wording and actions of the Communion Service are determined by authorised persons.
LINK Eve, Administrator, Catholic Cyberforum |
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7:53 PM Jul 11