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Services of Word and Holy Communion; commonly called "Eucharistic Services"
Topic Started: Monday, 23. April 2007, 23:55 (2,643 Views)
Eve
Former Admin/Moderator
Derekap
Apr 25 2007, 10:16 AM
I know, Rose, that at present by far the majority of churches have a Holy Mass at least on a Saturday Evening, a Sunday Morning or a Sunday Evening. However, this situation looks very much like deteriorating and we must prepare for such.

Whilst I appreciate there are rulings and official discouragement of Holy Communion Services on ordinary weekdays, I cannot understand the seemly attitude of some people against such as if they were wrong or even sinful in themselves. It seems they can, if necessary, be tolerated, albeit reluctantly, on Sundays but NEVER on weekdays.

Derek, if the situation in this country worsens, and parishes are without regular Sunday Mass, we (the laity) need not prepare. The Bishops are charged with making the decisions about Eucharistic Services.

Rose of York
Apr 24 2007, 08:58 PM
Redemptoris Sacramentum
 
[164.]  "If participation at the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible on account of the absence of a sacred minister or for some other grave cause",269 then it is the Christian people's right that the diocesan Bishop should provide as far as he is able for some celebration to be held on Sundays for that community under his authority and according to the Church's norms. Sunday celebrations of this specific kind, however, are to be considered altogether extraordinary.



Redemptoris Sacramentum
 
[166.]  Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.



The services, if held mid week in a parish that has Sunday or Vigil Mass, should not take place. They are forbidden. On Sundays they may take place place, only by authority of the Diocesan bishop.

The ruling comes from Rome. We must obey!
Howdy Folks. Has anybody seen my husband lately?
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Derekap
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newminster you will see I have corrected my entry.

Carlo. I am not accusing everyone. But some entries I have seen in discussions on this subject have beeen very negative, perhaps not so much on here but elsewhere.

I tend to veer towards the Spirit of the Law rather than the Letter, Full Stop and Comma of The Law.

I was once told pulpits should be on the left in ordinary churches and on the right in Cathedrals. In all honesty did it really matter?
Derekap
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CARLO
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Derekap
Apr 25 2007, 08:47 PM
...............
I tend to veer towards the Spirit of the Law rather than the Letter, Full Stop and Comma of The Law.

I was once told pulpits should be on the left in ordinary churches and on the right in Cathedrals. In all honesty did it really matter?

Derek

You are all at sea!

Too much sailing out of safe harbours? I suggest you return quickly to the safe harbour of Holy Mother the Church where the Catholic way is to observe the laws of God and of The Church.

And in answer to your question about pulpits...........of course such things matter!

If they did not why did the V2 vandals and Liturgy Profs ban use of the pulpit and make such a mess out of reordering our Church interiors?

Were they just wasting time and fooling around?

Salva me
Save me


CARLO
Judica me Deus
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Rose of York
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Holy Mass and Communion Services.

At present rural areas have Mass on either Saturday or Sunday, plus Holydays of Obligation.

Midweek, we in the rural areas are quite capable of praying at home, on a bus, by the river bank, in the supermarket queue, in the bath, kneeling down on the floor, lying down in bed, anywhere at all. Most of us accept that if we opt for the benefits of rural life, we must accept the drawbacks. We cope without a theatre, cinema, university, department store on the doorstep. It is just the same with weekday Masses. They are in town where the priest lives. Holy Communion during the week is not essential. Communion Services devalue the great Sacrifice of Holy Mass, and lead to confusion between the ministerial priesthood, with the priest acting in the person of Christ, and a lay person helping out only when necessary.

What is left, to attract young men to the service of God, as priests?
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Derekap
Apr 25 2007, 09:47 PM


I was once told pulpits should be on the left in ordinary churches and on the right in Cathedrals.  In all honesty did it really matter?


CARLO
 
Derek

You are all at sea!

Too much sailing out of safe harbours? I suggest you return quickly to the safe harbour of Holy Mother the Church where the Catholic way is to observe the laws of God and of The Church.

And in answer to your question about pulpits...........of course such things matter!

If they did not why did the V2 vandals and Liturgy Profs ban use of the pulpit and make such a mess out of reordering our Church interiors?

Were they just wasting time and fooling around?

Salva me
Save me


CARLO


This forum has a place for discussing altar rails and pulpits. I have better things to do than keep moving posts around. Can we stick to the subject please?

We are in danger of losing the friendly ambience of this forum.
Keep the Faith!

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Derekap
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Apologies Rose. I do get carried away sometimes despite efforts to the contrary.
Derekap
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Rose of York
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Thanks, Derek. As always, you are a gentleman.
Keep the Faith!

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Joseph

PJD
Apr 24 2007, 06:57 PM
Joseph: If you are referring to Mass as compared with Eucharistic service. The first is Sacrament and Sacrifice - the second is distribution of Hosts already consecrated.

PJD

First of all may I apologise for not coming back sooner, having raised this thread - unfortunately I've been off-line for a couple of days.

PJD - Did you read the link I provided in the Root message?

Mass and Communion Service: What's the Difference?
by Thomas Richstatter, O.F.M. americancatholic.org

Link:- http://tinyurl.com/3xtlrs (It's lengthy, but well-worth a read I think.)

If so, I should have thought it fairly obvious that the difference between them was not really in question, but rather the perception and gradual blurring of the edges which appears to be happening as a result of misinterpretations by well-meaning clergy and lay ministers.

Also I note you use the term Eucharistic service rather then Communion service. To me, just as EMHC's should never be referred to as Eucharistic Ministers - since their role is to assist if necessary with the distribution of Holy Communion, rather than in the Sacrament of The Eucharist - I think Communion service is a more meaningful term for those in which Holy Communion is made available using only pre-consecrated Hosts.


I'll try and get back on some of the other points raised in here later,
but in the meantime thank you all for your interest.
Joseph
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Joseph

Deacon Robert
Apr 24 2007, 08:17 PM
I agree with Rose. Places where a communion service becomes the norm, people tend to confuse the two. The official service for Sundays in absence of a Priest is structured in a way so that they can't be confused. Prior to the instructions, and I'm sure in many places today, the service was made up by individual Priests and followed the Mass leaving out certain presidential prayers and the consecration.

Deacon Robert, you refer to 'the instructions' in your response.
What are they, please, and where can they be found?

In another Catholic Forum we were asked if there was such a thing as Order of Service, or Rite, for these Communion services, but no-one was able to come up with any. Surely they must exist - but where, and what do they consist of?

Anyone?
Joseph
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PJD

Sorry Joseph I didn't read the link. I just thought you wanted an immediate kind of definition of the difference; that's all. I just contributed it off the cuff so to speak.

Others here have provided adequate comment on what you were really asking i.e. the difference between the two in terms of prudential employment of Communion services - pros and cons etc.

PJD
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Joseph

Derekap
Apr 25 2007, 09:47 PM
...I tend to veer towards the Spirit of the Law rather than the Letter, Full Stop and Comma of The Law.

Derek, do you really think that is wise?

As I see it your idea amounts to ignoring the Vatican directives as and when you feel uncomfortable with them, or when you feel they may have got it wrong or perhaps not fully understood your particular circumstances.

Of course there are many Catholics that think this way too, and over a wide range of issues, but I would be concerned that following such a practice could be seen as approaching anarchy - and surely you wouldn't be advocating that, would you?

Joseph
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Derekap
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Joseph. Obviously many things are morally wrong or right and there can be little argument. However, with many other rulings it can be often be impracticable to be literally obedient. Circumstances of place, time, ambience, local custom etc. have to sometimes dictate deviances.

For example: Does it really matter whether the Celebrant addresses us as Brethren (which I don't think is Latin), Brothers and Sisters, Sisters and Brothers or Friends?. Does it really matter if the Credence Table is on the right or left of the Sanctuary? Do either invalidate the Holy Mass or detract from it?

Should we say Ahmen or Aymen?
Derekap
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Joseph

Derekap
Apr 28 2007, 09:43 PM
Joseph. Obviously many things are morally wrong or right and there can be little argument.  However, with many other rulings it can be often be impracticable to be literally obedient.  Circumstances of place, time, ambience, local custom etc.  have to sometimes dictate deviances...


There may possibly be some such instances where the Vatican directives cannot be followed to the letter, though I have yet to encounter any. Certainly the deliberate over-riding of them to conduct weekday Communion services (which is what we were discussing) would not be one.
Joseph
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Rose of York
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Joseph
Apr 28 2007, 01:22 PM
In another Catholic Forum we were asked if there was such a thing as Order of Service, or Rite, for these Communion services, but no-one was able to come up with any.  Surely they must exist - but where, and what do they consist of?

Anyone?

I managed to find some information, from a person who was authorised, by his bishop, to hold such services in a remote area of a thinly populated country.

The service commences with a Penitential Rite, followed by reading of the Second Reading, Psalm and Gospel of the day.
Prayers of the Faithful are said, then Holy Communion is distributed, there is a quiet period for private prayer, and one final Scriptural passage, is read as a Post Communion Prayer.

Every weekend I attend Mass in a Chapel of Ease. If the priest is available, he comes for one mid week Mass. I am pleased he does not permit lay led Communion Services. Experience in another parish taught me that they lead to some laity becoming confused as to what functions are reserved to the ordained clergy.
Keep the Faith!

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Joseph

Thanks Rose. I'll be amazed if no formal Order of Service yet exists for these services. It's little wonder there is confusion if our willing Lay Ministers are being left to their own devices.

Interesting to note your quoted 'Order' includes the Gospel of the day, considering that (as I understand it) at Holy Mass the general rule is that only our Ordained Clergy are allowed to read the Gospel.
Joseph
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