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| Services of Word and Holy Communion; commonly called "Eucharistic Services" | |
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| Topic Started: Monday, 23. April 2007, 23:55 (2,631 Views) | |
| Carol-Anne | Thursday, 29. July 2010, 22:34 Post #196 |
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In think the correct reaction would have been to let people have a time of silent prayer. As this was not possible, I chose to leave. I was actually in the porch when the bell rang, and I looked back to see the EMHC leaving the sacristy. It is my understanding that the Blessed Sacrament is reserved in the tabernacle for adoration, and for taking to the sick. |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 29. July 2010, 22:48 Post #197 |
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That is right, but there are very limited circumstances when Services of Word and Holy Communion can be held, and just as with Mass, there is a correct way for them to be carried out, they do not include EMHCs processing up the aisle, or taking the place of the celebrant of Mass. One reason for the strict rules is the danger some people get the impression it is Mass without "extras". I heard someone describe such a service as the short Mass, very convenient. not over-long! Some parish priests do allow their EHMCs to have these services because they want them. I know of one priest who said a very early morning Mass, as was his way on Mondays, the traditional day of rest for priests. At ten am he saw, through his window, a few cars in the car park. He had just arrived in the parish, worried he had forgotten a wedding or funeral he dashed round to the church to find one of those services going on. He explained why it was not allowed. A week later it happened again. The following week, those EMHCs found the tabernacle lock had been changed. The priest told them, they could not have keys unless they assured him they would obey the instructions of their bishop. I heard a couple of them resigned in a sulk, cheeky priest thought he was in charge of the parish. I think we could all do with educating about these services, what they are for and when it is appropriate for them to be held. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| CARLO | Thursday, 29. July 2010, 23:51 Post #198 |
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Rose, God bless the Priest you refer to for standing up to these uppity types! We need a bit more of that from the Clergy! Veritas Truth CARLO |
| Judica me Deus | |
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| Peter | Friday, 30. July 2010, 11:52 Post #199 |
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I'm with Rose and Carlo on this one. There does have to be some adherence to rules/guidelines with most things and especially (in my humble view) matters relating to Our Lord in the Eucharist. This most sacred of acts should not be conducted on a whim of individuality by anyone! Peter |
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| Mairtin | Friday, 30. July 2010, 12:37 Post #200 |
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They should never have been selected for EMHC in the first place. |
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| Mairtin | Friday, 30. July 2010, 12:38 Post #201 |
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I'm a bit betwixt and between on this. I think that additional services where the Holy Eucharist is distributed are a good thing in principle and will become more and more important as the ongong decline in vocations starts to bite even more than it is at present. I also don't see the need for them to be as restricted as they currently are - there is no prayer better than receiving Holy Communion and those who receive daily by attendance at Mass are generally accorded great respect so why should a person be refused the opportunity to recive on any particular day if there is an acceptable method for them to do so and I think the Vatican should consider relaxing the rules in that respect. After all, if a Service of the Word is acceptable on some days, why should they not be acceptable on other days? I do think, however, that the exact format of these services need to be clearly laid down and followed. I don't at all like the sound of what Carol-Anne described - a bell ringing, the EMHC formally proceeding from the sacristy to the altar and there taking the priest's chair, it all comes across as some wannabe priest taking the chance to play out their fantasy. EMHC's have a special role in the Church and can provide a valuable service to their fellow parishioners but they are not priests and that distinction has to be clearly seen. |
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| PJD | Friday, 30. July 2010, 16:53 Post #202 |
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There are also problems of discipline in relation to e.g. the laity not taking on more than one 'serving' at a single Mass. The Sacristan is not really supposed to take on his/her daily appointment whilst enacting other roles such as reading etc. The Server is not to take on Reading. The Reader is not supposed to act also as an EMHC. and so on. All these problems are in my opinion found at their root in 'self-esteem'. PJD |
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| Mairtin | Friday, 30. July 2010, 18:17 Post #203 |
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It's not always that, PJD, I think it is very often that somebody doing one job is immediately considered suitable for another; also, when somebody does take on a role, especially EMHC, there is a perception among many people - usually ill founded, in my experience - that that means the person must be somehow especially holy and religious. Priests can also be to blame. I'm both a Reader and an EMHC but I refuse to do both at the same Mass (which is, of course, the rule). I generally act as stand in when no Reader turns up at a Mass but don't do so when I'm on EMHC duty; our priest gets quite annoyed with me for taking that stance if it means him having to do the Readings himself, he thinks I'm too pernickety! |
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| Rose of York | Friday, 30. July 2010, 18:41 Post #204 |
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The reason for the restriction is, that if such services were held daily, there would be a danger of blurring the distinction between ordained priesthood and lay ministries. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Friday, 30. July 2010, 18:41 Post #205 |
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The exact format is laid down. Mairtin I find it significant that you, an EMHC, are not aware. Dioceses need to ensure all who are EMHCs are familiar with the format. How would you cope if you priest were to be involved in an accident minutes before Mass was due, and was unable to proceed? Would you know whether you may hold a service of Word and Holy Communion, how it is done, what prayers and readings are included, and whether persons who are not EMHCs should be given roles in the sanctuary? Should you read the Gospel? Would you have entrance, Communion and final hymns? What would you do it there were ten times as many would be communicants, as consecrated hosts available? As I said earlier we need educating in these matters. It would seem sensible for booklets with the format being in the sacristy, with a copy available, hanging from the notice board, for the interest of parishioners. If we are to be left in ignorance, it may be only a matter of time before some idiot stages a virtual consecration "to make it realistic". |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| PJD | Friday, 30. July 2010, 19:25 Post #206 |
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Martin wrote: "It's not always that, PJD, I think it is very often that somebody doing one job is immediately considered suitable for another; also, when somebody does take on a role, especially EMHC, there is a perception among many people - usually ill founded, in my experience - that that means the person must be somehow especially holy and religious. Priests can also be to blame. I'm both a Reader and an EMHC but I refuse to do both at the same Mass (which is, of course, the rule). I generally act as stand in when no Reader turns up at a Mass but don't do so when I'm on EMHC duty; our priest gets quite annoyed with me for taking that stance if it means him having to do the Readings himself, he thinks I'm too pernickety!" I understand all that Mairtin; it goes on where I am. But we are speaking, are we not, about discipline. If you are the only reader available then let the priest break the rules. Until the Vatican alters them, then they should be obeyed except under exceptional circumstances. But then many people often don't like obedience very much - do they? Or perhaps they haven't had the rules explained to them. PJD |
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| CARLO | Friday, 30. July 2010, 23:26 Post #207 |
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Edited by CARLO, Friday, 30. July 2010, 23:27.
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| Judica me Deus | |
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| Mairtin | Saturday, 31. July 2010, 09:17 Post #208 |
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You're assuming, Carlo, that there is and will continue to be a sufficient surplus of priests in other countries to supply the needs of the UK, I'm far from convinced that is true.
I find lack of need a rather strange concept to apply to receiving Holy Communion; tell me, do you think that people who are Daily Communicants are doing something they really shouldn't be doing because they don't "need" to be doing it?
That is something of which I could never fathom the logic. The Eucharist is the heart of our religion and is the very raison d'être for Holy Mass. If somebody considers themselves not in a fit state to receive Holy Communion because they need to go to Confession or have broken the rules on fasting or so on, then that's fair enough, but why on earth should somebody decline Holy Communion for no other reason than that they received it last week or two weeks ago or whenever? How can Mass without receiving Holy Communion somehow be equal to or even superior to Mass where Holy Communion is received? |
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| Derekap | Saturday, 31. July 2010, 17:13 Post #209 |
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Here are my comments on this subject. 1 Why does the Service of the Word and Distribution of Holy Communication exist if it is considered to be confined to extremely rare occasions and only with the approval of the Diocesan Bishop? 2 I retired from the status of EMHC about 10 years ago because of conditions due to ageing. In my then parish the Service consisted of the most of the prayers and readings of the day's Holy Mass up to and including the Bidding Prayers. The Service then continued with the prayers of Holy Mass from the Lord's Prayer and distribution of Holy Communion until the Blessing - which was on us not you! Surprisingly we were instructed to take the Ciborium from the Tabernacle and place it on the Altar before commencing the Lord's Prayer. I returned my booklets etc for the benefit of successors so I have to rely on memory. I did not expect to be involved in a debate such as this! In my few years as EMHC I probably led such a service about a dozen times (the first time was a weekday emergency like the one mentioned earlier) -other ministers led such services. Where possible, and it was usually possible, someone else read the First Reading and Bidding Prayers. 3 In another I used to attend weekly on a weekday there was a series of prayers, psalms and readings and then distribution of Holy Communion (duly authorised in the absence of the parish priest). 4 I do not approve of the ministers taking it upon themselves to lead such services without the knowledge of the Parish Priest nor using the Celebrant's Chair. 5 However, where a Holy Mass is published and people gathered together for this purpose, whether a Sunday, Feast or Weekday and for some reason the priest doesn't turn-up then I don't think it is wrong for an EMHC to lead such a service if access to the Tabernacle is possible. I know Rules are Rules, but when they are laid down it is unlikely that every event is foreseeable therefore I consider this situation legitimately permits this infraction of very strict interpretation of the Rules or Bishop's decisions. About ten years go a priest (in another parish,not mine) was (without warning) too ill to offer Holy Mass on Sunday Morning. EMsHC led a Service of the Word and Holy Communion. I don't know whether they tried to contact the Bishop or other priests in the city - which might have caused a delay. Would anyone say the congregation should be told: "Sorry, you'll have to go to another church or another church tonight or just go home? 6 Long before V2 there were occasions in my then parish when the priest distributed Holy Communion outside of Holy Mass on weekdays. I can't exactly remember the circumstances. I think maybe towards the end of the week the priest found it necessary to offer a Requiem Holy Mass later in the morning and to avoid disappointing those who turned-up at the usual weekday time for Holy Mass distributed Holy Communion. As I shall repeat, I did not expect to be involved in such a debate therefore I accepted the situation as normal and I don't remember there being any contentious debate in the Catholic Press. A server or the priest recited the Confiteor (in Latin) the priest recited the Absolution and at the end gave the congregation a Blessing. Perhaps the priest even knowing of a later in the morning Requiem Holy Mass announced on the Sunday before he would distribute Holy Communion at the usual time of start of the weekday Holy Mass. |
| Derekap | |
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| Clare | Sunday, 1. August 2010, 22:08 Post #210 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Nowt wrong wi'that. If I may quote something Archbishop Lefebvre said (it's not inflammatory or controversial, it's just about his early life, and it is relevant to what Derek has written!):
Edited by Clare, Sunday, 1. August 2010, 22:08.
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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7:53 PM Jul 11