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Services of Word and Holy Communion; commonly called "Eucharistic Services"
Topic Started: Monday, 23. April 2007, 23:55 (2,634 Views)
Carol-Anne

It doesn't seem to have spread to these parts. One Saturday morning last month, there was some confusion and the supply priest who had been due to say Mass didn't arrive. So certain members of the congregation decided that they would hold a service of word and communion. A service which began with the bell ringing as at the start of Mass, and an EMHC processing from the sacristy to the chair on the sanctuary. This in a parish where there had been Mass the previous evening and where there would be four masses on the Sunday.
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Derekap
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As an Ozzie would say: "Good on them!". The people have gathered for Holy Mass so an EMHC leads prayers, proclaims the readings for the day and presumably distributes Holy Communion. With all respect for The Rosary would it have been the better alternative or even "Sorry folks, you'll have to go home we have to lock-up the church- rules is rules!".
Derekap
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Well, occasionally, the priest due to say Mass at one of the churches I attend, gets stuck in traffic. When this happens, a man leads us in a decade of the rosary, and we sing the hymn we were going to sing at the end of Mass. Then people can either hang around waiting for the priest to turn up, which he will eventually, or go home.
S.A.G.

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Mairtin
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Clare
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 12:47
When this happens, a man leads us in a decade of the rosary ...
I presume it has to be a man because women have to keep silent in Church.

By the way, does that mean the women can't even respond to the Rosary, at least not out loud?
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Poesy
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Mairtin
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 14:24
Clare
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 12:47
When this happens, a man leads us in a decade of the rosary ...
I presume it has to be a man because women have to keep silent in Church.


By the way, does that mean the women can't even respond to the Rosary, at least not out loud?


]Mairtin, as it happens, we have a man lead the rosary before Mass at our parish and always a man leading Stations of the Cross, and again a man leads the rosary at our prayer group. You are always quick to highlight these kind of points with the trads, so what's the big issue with you?

Infact, even when I was in Scotland we did the Stations every friday and was led by a man, or a priest, as with the rosary.

Edited by Poesy, Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 14:45.
Domine Jesu, noverim me .
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Mairtin
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Poesy
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 14:32
Mairtin, as it happens, we have a man lead the rosary before Mass at our parish and always a man leading Stations of the Cross, and again a man leads the rosary at our prayer group. You are always quick to highlight these kind of points with the trads, so what's the big issue with you?
It's not an issue with me at all, Poesy, it's just that Clare reminded us in another thread that St. Paul said women should be silent in church and I'm genuinely interested to know how far she and other trads take that.

So, in your Church, is it a policy that all these prayers should be led a man or has it just turned out that way and would you see any reason why a woman shouldn'[t lead them?
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Mairtin
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 15:36
It's not an issue with me at all, Poesy, it's just that Clare reminded us in another thread that St. Paul said women should be silent in church and I'm genuinely interested to know how far she and other trads take that.
We take it this far:

Women do not lead worship or prayers.

They respond, with other laymen, to the prayers after Low Mass. They sing at sung Masses.

It's common sense, Mairtin. Something that appears to have been lost after Vatican II.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Mairtin, you were around before Vatican II. What did women do then? I imagine it would be the same as what trads do now.

So, you should not have to ask. You should know.
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Poesy
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:bl:
Mairtin
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 15:36


So, in your Church, is it a policy that all these prayers should be led a man or has it just turned out that way and would you see any reason why a woman shouldn'[t lead them?
Mairtin, I couldn't say if male led prayers etc. is Church policy, but your questioning made me reflect on what I have always and ever experienced at Church, though we do have female readers and Eucharistic ministers.

I know that trads don't have Eucharistic ministers,and what I would like to ask Clare is,

1. Who takes the Sacraments to the sick?

2. Do the SSPX stick by what St. Paul says about women remaining silent and cover their heads in Church?

Women certainly do a lot of yacking before Mass ! :bl:



Edited by Poesy, Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 16:24.
Domine Jesu, noverim me .
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Clare
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Poesy
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 16:01
I know that trads don't have Eucharistic ministers,and what I would like to ask Clare is,

1. Who takes the Sacraments to the sick?
A priest.

Quote:
 
2. Do the SSPX stick by what St. Paul says about women remaining silent and cover their heads in Church?


As before VII, there are no lay readers, male or female. At Low Mass, the altar server (a male) gives th responses. At Sung or High Masses, the congregation (men and women) sing the responses. It's preferable for choirs to be all male, but usually impracticable.

Women generally cover their heads. There are exceptions. It is recommended, but not rigorously enforced!
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Derekap
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If the opinion or ruling is that women should not lead prayers in church why should they be allowed to sing in the choir? Also do nuns have to have a priest to lead them in prayer or sing the Office?

Well before V2 in my then parish we sometimes had women and men leading the Rosary during the 40 Hours Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament.

Not everything was traditionally 'perfect' before V2 and sometimes, surprise surprise, it was legitimate!
Derekap
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Poesy
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Clare
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 16:44
Poesy
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 16:01
I know that trads don't have Eucharistic ministers,and what I would like to ask Clare is,

1. Who takes the Sacraments to the sick?
A priest.

Quote:
 
2. Do the SSPX stick by what St. Paul says about women remaining silent and cover their heads in Church?


As before VII, there are no lay readers, male or female. At Low Mass, the altar server (a male) gives th responses. At Sung or High Masses, the congregation (men and women) sing the responses. It's preferable for choirs to be all male, but usually impracticable.

Women generally cover their heads. There are exceptions. It is recommended, but not rigorously enforced!


Clare, I am just wondering about the practicalities of a parish priest getting round visiting the sick to administer the Sacraments, in the event that we were to revert back to pre V2.

If Christ commanded us to go forth and preach the gospel, heal and baptize in His name, then why can't a lay person take the Sacraments (our Blessed Lord ) to the Sick?


And there is the feeding of the 5000, Which was like a pre figurement of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which was an offering of Our Lord's Sacred Body for many (pro multo). Christ increased the bread and fish so they could all share it amongst each other. Christ did not go round Himself administering to the 5000.

So I have come to think that Eucharistic ministers administering the Blessed Sacraments is perfectly acceptable and is not just a V2 novelty as some traditionalist would have us believe.




Edited by Poesy, Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 17:45.
Domine Jesu, noverim me .
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Mairtin
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Clare
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 15:40
Women do not lead worship or prayers.

They respond, with other laymen, to the prayers after Low Mass. They sing at sung Masses.

It's common sense, Mairtin. Something that appears to have been lost after Vatican II.
In what way is it common sense?
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Mairtin
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Clare
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 15:42
Mairtin, you were around before Vatican II. What did women do then? I imagine it would be the same as what trads do now.

So, you should not have to ask. You should know.
I honestly can't remember.

Women certainly took second place to men in those just as they did in most things in those days but I alwyas thought of that as a social/cultural thing, not founded in any religious teaching - is/was there anything specified in Church teaching or rules about women not leading worship or prayers outside of Mass?

Like Derek, I think I can recall women leading the Rosary and other prayers but I can't be certain.
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Mairtin
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Clare
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 16:44
Poesy
Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 16:01
Do the SSPX stick by what St. Paul says about women remaining silent and cover their heads in Church?

As before VII, there are no lay readers, male or female. At Low Mass, the altar server (a male) gives th responses. At Sung or High Masses, the congregation (men and women) sing the responses. It's preferable for choirs to be all male, but usually impracticable.
So what about St Paul saying that women should be silent in church? You are fond of quoting that in discussions about the role of women in the church yet you're saying here that even the SSPX don't enforce it rigidly, surely that makes nonsense of trying to use it in those other discussions?

Also, who decides where the line falls and on what basis e.g. why is it wrong for women to respond at Low Mass but okay for them to respond at High Mass?
Edited by Mairtin, Wednesday, 28. July 2010, 17:29.
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