Acts 13:46-49

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Acts 13:46-49; Where's the Lord's command?
Topic Started: Saturday, 17. October 2009, 19:35 (140 Views)
Powerofone	Saturday, 17. October 2009, 19:35 Post #1
Posts: 764 Group: Members Member #210 Joined: October 2, 2008	"For this is what the Lord commanded us to do when he said: I have made you a light for the nations, so that my salvation may reach the ends of the earth.' " Where in Scripture did the Lord say this? I can find no such verse. Were Paul and Barnabas just ad libbing? Were they pretending to have some justification for actions that they had already decided to take? Or were just taking liberties with a quotation. Or is it possible that the Lord did indeed say it but it did not find it's way into the gospels, most of which were in any case written after Acts?



Phil_sfo	Sunday, 18. October 2009, 10:36 Post #2
Posts: 418 Group: Members Member #101 Joined: September 8, 2007	I'm not sure that when the term 'Lord' is used it always refers to Jesus, although, in this case I think it does. This particular quotation seems to come from the prophet Isaiah (49.6) where it was thought to refer to the faithful core of Jews in exile and, later, to Jesus Himself. Here is an excerpt from what Pope John Paul said in 1990 when in Mexico... "... For this reason the Lord in his infinite love wanted to bring the Good News to all nations, making the chosen people an instrument to announce the promised salvation: "I will make you a light to the nations that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth" (Is 49:6). 6.. This action by God reaches its high point in Jesus Christ. And Mary receives this Good News in the Annunciation in order to communicate it later to others; indeed, as soon as she receives the Lord's message she goes off to a city of Judah to take it to Elizabeth her relative and proclaim God's marvels in which she has placed her faith: "My soul magnifies the Lord, my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour" (Lk 1:46-47)." ..and here is the EWTN site address. http://ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MX90B.HTM



Mairtin	Sunday, 18. October 2009, 12:26 Post #3
Posts: 1,141 Group: Members Member #206 Joined: August 16, 2008	The Prayer After Communion today was Mark 16:15 Quote: And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. That seems to answer to at least some extent what PO1 was asking but it opens a wider question for me - that of what is meant by preaching the gospel to "the whole creation"?
	Online Prayer - Night Prayer, Rosary and Lectio Divina Visit www.roomtopray.net for details of days and times


Gerard	Sunday, 18. October 2009, 14:28 Post #4
Posts: 3,105 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: September 26, 2006	Matthew 5:14 "You are the light of the world..." http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5&version=NIV Edited by Gerard, Sunday, 18. October 2009, 14:36.
	"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).


Powerofone	Monday, 19. October 2009, 19:35 Post #5
Posts: 764 Group: Members Member #210 Joined: October 2, 2008	Isaiah 49:6, Mark 16:15, Matthew 5:14 etc are all very close, but none quite hits the nail on the head. Maybe Luke was unaware that he was stringing 2 quotations together in one quotation. Maybe I'm just being too fussy.



Powerofone	Monday, 19. October 2009, 19:55 Post #6
Posts: 764 Group: Members Member #210 Joined: October 2, 2008	Other uses of the word "creation" in the NT. In general, it seems safe to say that it's use both here and in many of the other verses below, is a bit of hyperbole: not every created thing is intende, only mankind. That would be my take on it anyway. The Greek ��ί�� (ktisis) occurs 20 times in 19 verses in the Greek concordance of the NASB Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.' Mar 13:19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will be. Mar 16:15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. Rom 1:20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen. Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God; Rom 8:20 for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope; Rom 8:21 because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God. Rom 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 2Cr 5:17 Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. Gal 6:15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; Col 1:23 provided that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister. Hbr 4:13 And before him no creature is hidden, but all are open and laid bare to the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Hbr 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 1Pe 2:13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 2Pe 3:4 and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation." Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the church in La-odice'a write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.



Mairtin	Tuesday, 20. October 2009, 06:34 Post #7
Posts: 1,141 Group: Members Member #206 Joined: August 16, 2008	Powerofone Monday, 19. October 2009, 19:55 Other uses of the word "creation" in the NT. In general, it seems safe to say that it's use both here and in many of the other verses below, is a bit of hyperbole: not every created thing is intende, only mankind. That would be my take on it anyway. I'm not sure that it is just hyperbole. We had a discussion about this some months ago (probably elsewhere) where I floated the idea that all of life is interconnected and I pulled the food chain into it which, AFAIR, did not overly impress you I'm a bit busy these days but I'll try to dig something out on it later this week.
	Online Prayer - Night Prayer, Rosary and Lectio Divina Visit www.roomtopray.net for details of days and times


Mairtin	Tuesday, 20. October 2009, 06:35 Post #8
Posts: 1,141 Group: Members Member #206 Joined: August 16, 2008	Mairtin Tuesday, 20. October 2009, 06:34 Powerofone Monday, 19. October 2009, 19:55 Other uses of the word "creation" in the NT. In general, it seems safe to say that it's use both here and in many of the other verses below, is a bit of hyperbole: not every created thing is intende, only mankind. That would be my take on it anyway. I'm not sure that it is just hyperbole. We had a discussion about this some months ago (probably elsewhere) where I floated the idea that all of life is interconnected spiritually and I pulled the food chain into it which, AFAIR, did not overly impress you I'm a bit busy these days but I'll try to dig something out on it later this week.
	Online Prayer - Night Prayer, Rosary and Lectio Divina Visit www.roomtopray.net for details of days and times


Mairtin	Tuesday, 20. October 2009, 06:36 Post #9
Posts: 1,141 Group: Members Member #206 Joined: August 16, 2008	Mairtin Tuesday, 20. October 2009, 06:35 Mairtin Tuesday, 20. October 2009, 06:34 Powerofone Monday, 19. October 2009, 19:55 Other uses of the word "creation" in the NT. In general, it seems safe to say that it's use both here and in many of the other verses below, is a bit of hyperbole: not every created thing is intende, only mankind. That would be my take on it anyway. I'm not sure that it is just hyperbole. We had a discussion about this some months ago (probably elsewhere) where I floated the idea that all of life is interconnected spiritually; I even pulled the food chain into it which, AFAIR, did not overly impress you I'm a bit busy these days but I'll try to dig something out on it later this week.
	Online Prayer - Night Prayer, Rosary and Lectio Divina Visit www.roomtopray.net for details of days and times


Powerofone	Tuesday, 20. October 2009, 19:52 Post #10
Posts: 764 Group: Members Member #210 Joined: October 2, 2008	Repeating it 3 times dosn't make it more convincing :-)



Gerard	Tuesday, 20. October 2009, 20:05 Post #11
Posts: 3,105 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: September 26, 2006	When I read "creation" in the Word of God I feel creation alive. And if that sounds like nonsense I would say - I dont think it is hyperbole, I think it is reality. And as for Jesus saying those words - the Bible was not dictated (we are not Muslims). The Gospels are edited versions of stories passed down. It looks like Luke based that verse on Isaiah and that the other verses from Matthew etc show that other oral traditions have Jesus saying the same things. Gerry
	"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).


Gerard	Tuesday, 20. October 2009, 20:28 Post #12
Posts: 3,105 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: September 26, 2006	PS St Francis tok it literally - and preached to the birds Gerry
	"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).


Powerofone	Wednesday, 21. October 2009, 20:11 Post #13
Posts: 764 Group: Members Member #210 Joined: October 2, 2008	Were the birds saved? " Who knoweth if the spirit of the children of Adam ascend upward, and if the spirit of the beasts descend downward?" (Eccl 3:21)



Gerard	Thursday, 22. October 2009, 09:09 Post #14
Posts: 3,105 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: September 26, 2006	Quote: For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. Which I think means "not yet" to your question. But I think they experienced the presence of God. Also, from what the accounts say, they were a more attentive audience than many Sunday congregations. Gerry Edited by Gerard, Thursday, 22. October 2009, 09:10.
	"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).


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