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What is "Prophecy" ?
Topic Started: Friday, 18. September 2009, 09:55 (739 Views)
CARLO
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This thread reminds me of a chap who commenced a similar debate in another Catholic forum some years ago.

Quite early into the debate he revealed that he considered himself a prophet, had been the recipient of various divine revelations and quite simply could not be questioned or challenged on the subject - having received his knowledge straight from the 'big man' you understand?

Shortly afterwards I lost all interest in the subject.

Miserere nobis
Have mercy on us


CARLO
Edited by CARLO, Sunday, 20. September 2009, 20:42.
Judica me Deus
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Gerard

Carlo,

You were Baptised priest, prophet and king.
St Paul urges you to desire the gift of prophecy (he thinks its the highest charism)
Scripture says "I wish you were all able to prophesy" (1 Cor 14:5)
And the official prayer of the Church prays "You called us to be prophets in Christ:........" (2nd post this thread).


And you let "a chap" cause you to lose all interest?

Miserere nobis
Indeed.

Gerry


"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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James
James
An interesting few lines from a book by Peter Ackroyd 1959
"The peoples of the Old testament"

Although still applicable in the New.


" It was characteristic of the prophets to believe that the events of their lives might be full of meaning, and might make plain to them what God was saying to them. They saw God at work not only in the great events of history but also in everyday things. Amos saw a basket full of ripe fruit one day and, while to everyone around him it was just a basket of ripe fruit, to Amos it suddenly gave a word from God"

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Gerard

Agreed James,

And Amos is a perfect prophet for the situation in the West today.
Its a short book!

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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James
James
So, can we say that prophecy is "insight ?".
Religion or lack of it is not really material.
If the soul is from God , then by nature it will prophesy.

Religious people will direct it as from God and back to God .
Non believers will not see it that way.

One person may detect a great musical talent in a young person - the ability to "see" by whatever means - but not foretelling the future.
Another may detect destruction of that talent by the company the young person is keeping and the lifestyle - a foretelling of things to come.

I think the old prophets were like that in relation to the people of Israel and Judah.
They saw the real "soul" of the land and the "soul" of the people in the ways of the One God.
But the people lived a different lifestyle amongst people of many Gods .
The God of Moses was being lost in new ways of thinking and acting.

The prophets saw the importance of the tradition - the music, the belief, the ways, -the very soul from the belief in the One God.

It was being lost and that insight was of great prophesies.

Seeing prophecy in that light, as an insight of soul - a talent - then it is also part of us today. - I would say.

Edited by James, Thursday, 24. September 2009, 11:52.
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Gerard

James,

I agree with most of that. And I would say that:

The insight needs to be spoken out to others.
It seems more like prophecy to me if the insight is God given, either by an inbred sense of justice or love. or from a knowlege of Scripture, or from a word or inspiration in prayer.

Thinking about these things gives insight into how the OT prophets must have operated and then how to recognise prophets today - its all linked.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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James
James
Strange though in the case of John the Baptist, as mentioned earlier.
Many see him as the last great prophet foretelling the coming of the christ and bowing out, as it were, afterwards.

But if you read carefully this is not so.
He said the kingdom was at hand and could easily have meant that "by baptism and repentance the kingdom is at hand.". He did not make any claims for himself and he also knew of a messiah foretold from old.

You see the problem here is that when John was in prison he sent messengers to Jesus questioning " Are you the one who is to come or do we expect some other?"
So, at that time ,he did not actually see Jesus as the messiah, even if they may have known each other.
He was asking a question.

This puts in doubt the words allegedly spoken at the Baptism of Jesus.

Agree a turning point, as one pointed the way and the other claimed - but there is a subtle difference on the prophecy angle !!


Edited by James, Thursday, 24. September 2009, 15:03.
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Richard Hannay.

The Didache
Chapter 13. Support of Prophets
But every true prophet that wills to abide among you is worthy of his support. So also a true teacher is himself worthy, as the workman, of his support. Matthew 10:10; cf. Luke 10:7 every first-fruit, therefore, of the products of wine-press and threshing-floor, of oxen and of sheep, you shall take and give to the prophets, for they are your high priests. But if you have not a prophet, give it to the poor. If you make a batch of dough, take the first-fruit and give according to the commandment. So also when you open a jar of wine or of oil, take the first-fruit and give it to the prophets; and of money (silver) and clothing and every possession, take the first-fruit, as it may seem good to you, and give according to the commandment.
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CARLO
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Gerard
Sunday, 20. September 2009, 21:24
Carlo,

You were Baptised priest, prophet and king.
St Paul urges you to desire the gift of prophecy (he thinks its the highest charism)
Scripture says "I wish you were all able to prophesy" (1 Cor 14:5)
And the official prayer of the Church prays "You called us to be prophets in Christ:........" (2nd post this thread).


And you let "a chap" cause you to lose all interest?

Miserere nobis
Indeed.

Gerry


Well well tis not so!

I was just warning that some chaps who are into prophecy are also very much into themselves and their own personal experiences or delusions! Present company excepted of course!

For me a prophet is a rather aged holy man with a stick and a long beard making utterances of great weight concerning the future. Somebody like Isiah!

Modern prophets very often turn out to be charlatans whatever the Scriptures may suggest.

Veritas
Truth


CARLO
Judica me Deus
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Ned

CARLO
Sunday, 4. October 2009, 21:08
Modern prophets very often turn out to be charlatans whatever the Scriptures may suggest.
Alas, Carlo, it was ever the same.

As I read the OT, there were lots of false prophets about.

For example have a look at Jeremiah chapter 23; verse 33 will give you a taste - “When one of this people, or a prophet or a priest asks you, ‘What is the burden of the Lord?’ you shall say to them, ‘You are the burden, and I will cast you off, declares the Lord.’

The danger from false prophets is one of those themes that runs right through the Bible - from the first false prophet, the serpent who lied to Eve, to the false prophet of Revelations.

Regards

Ned
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CARLO
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Ned
Sunday, 4. October 2009, 22:44
CARLO
Sunday, 4. October 2009, 21:08
Modern prophets very often turn out to be charlatans whatever the Scriptures may suggest.
Alas, Carlo, it was ever the same...............The danger from false prophets is one of those themes that runs right through the Bible - from the first false prophet, the serpent who lied to Eve, to the false prophet of Revelations.

Regards

Ned
Well said Ned!

Pax tecum
Peace be with thee


CARLO
Judica me Deus
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Rose of York
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http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=19753

Quote:
 
The writing is on the wall - Canon Pat Browne


Fr Pat Browne gave the following homily at Holy Apostles, Pimlico, central London, on Sunday, 29 January 2012.

What is a prophet? The common view is, that a prophet is someone who can foretell the future! That may be so. But a prophet is not a fortune teller. They are people who can read the signs of the times and so see what is going to happen if we pursue this line of activity or what will happen if we do not change direction. The prophet has an in-built SatNav and sees more clearly than the rest of us what direction we should be taking and where we are going wrong. They are uncomfortable people to have around. They tell us the truth about ourselves - a truth many of us do not want to hear.

Jesus was such a prophet. We are told in today’s gospel that he taught them with authority.

This Wednesday the Government will seek to overturn what the House of Lords voted for last week. Yes, the country needs to spend less and pay its debts and the government must do all it can to catch benefit cheats and those who evade their taxes as they should. If they did, the money would be there to help those who are in genuine need of benefits.

But this legislation on Wednesday if it goes through, will seek to cap benefits to families, regardless of how many children there are in the family. Regardless of the state of health of those children. Whether they are well, sick or disabled. In doing so over 100,000 children will be put into absolute poverty in this country - the most severe poverty measure according to the institute of fiscal studies. The popular press sees nothing wrong with this. Nobody likes the poor. And they are all categorised as spongers. Who is going to speak out on behalf of the genuine poor?

The Government is now about to allow Abortion Clinics to advertise Abortion on TV and Radio - like advertising a car or a washing up liquid. We are now advertising the death of our most vulnerable members. Next we will be advertising which clinics in order to go to, for assisted suicide. When is it going to stop? Two for One. Buy one get one free! Come along and bring your wife too we can do her for free. It is laughable if it were not so tragic! Who is going to speak out on behalf of the vulnerable in our society – the unborn, the elderly and the sick?

And now the Government want to redefine marriage - to say that marriage is not something only between a man and woman but that it can be between two people of the same sex. Why? Civil partnerships give gay couples all the legal rights and responsibilities that that married people have. It is such arrogance to start dictating now the meaning of words – changing the dictionary by legalisation!

Our young people are growing up in a world today that is telling them they are inadequate if they are not sexually experienced by the age of 16 or younger; that they must try whatever drugs and alcohol is available. They see their parents moving from one partner to another with no real thought about the needs or rights of the children. And yet we wonder why there is so much sexually transmitted disease in society. Why alcoholism and addiction is so rife. Why family life is in such a mess. Why so many people young and older are depressed and often suicidal. Why people do not like themselves. How could they, when they behave like this. A life of Hedonism - pleasure seeking leads only to self-loathing and depression.

The writing is on the wall.

Where does that expression come from? In the Old Testament in the book of Daniel, the pagan King and his court have given themselves over to unbridled promiscuity and self-indulgence. At one of their banquets a hand appears on the wall behind where the King is sitting, and begins to write. Who can interpret what has been written? Daniel steps out and does so, telling the King the hand has written that and his civilization are going to be crushed as a result of the choices they have made and the lifestyle they have pursued.

The writing is on the wall too for our society today.

At our Baptism, you and I were anointed to be prophets – people who would speak up in society to say, there is another way, God’s way. Not to go along with things as they are cos it is easier to do so.

When the writing is on the wall, the fool ignores it. The prophet on the other hand reads it, puts his or her life in order in the light of it, and equally important, has the courage to speak out and tell other people what it is saying, so they can do the same.

If we don’t, our silence will condemn us and all that we value will be lost.


More than a bit scary, isn't it? And, I think, prophetic.
Keep the Faith!

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Anne-Marie

Whether you and I like it or not...
THAT is some sermon.
We could sure do with a whole lot more where that came from - well done, Canon Browne.
Anne-Marie
FIAT VOLUNTAS DEI
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Gerard

A prophet is someone who speaks God's word into the present.
Canon Browne did just that.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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paul

Prophecy is not to be confused with clarvoyance, second sight etc. Many people have the gift of second sight etc., but this phenomena is only associated with the secular and not spiritual Christianity. Let me elucidate further, when you see psychics on the tv they have the gift of communicating with the spirit world and are able to converse with them. The usual outcome is trivia, eg. do you remember falling over in the park etc.. Spiritual questions are not asked by the psychic and would I feel be ignored for "it is not for us to know such matters"

Prophecy however, is Divinely inspired and relates to God and his message for the prophet to proclaim.
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