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| What is "Prophecy" ? | |
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| Topic Started: Friday, 18. September 2009, 09:55 (741 Views) | |
| Powerofone | Friday, 18. September 2009, 18:06 Post #16 |
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I disagree and must accordingly disengage from this thread as I cannot see the basis of a commonly agreed set of words to move the debate forward. |
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| Gerard | Friday, 18. September 2009, 22:45 Post #17 |
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Pity
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Deacon Robert | Friday, 18. September 2009, 23:51 Post #18 |
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May I add, for the means of moving this forward, what is a prophet? Is being a prophet only restricted to a relationship to God? Can a person be considered a prophet if it only pertains to secular matters? if for example: can someone who sees that giving mortgages to people who can not repay them will eventually cause an crisis in the economic world be called a prophet? Is someone who sees and understands God's word and clearly sees what will ensue when we work and live in opposition a prophet? |
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| Richard Hannay. | Friday, 18. September 2009, 23:57 Post #19 |
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1kings 19:1-16 You do not need to make a noise to be a prophet. |
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| PJD | Saturday, 19. September 2009, 12:44 Post #20 |
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"May I add, for the means of moving this forward, what is a prophet? Is being a prophet only restricted to a relationship to God? Can a person be considered a prophet if it only pertains to secular matters? if for example: can someone who sees that giving mortgages to people who can not repay them will eventually cause an crisis in the economic world be called a prophet? Is someone who sees and understands God's word and clearly sees what will ensue when we work and live in opposition a prophet? " Yes I agree it is good to ask these questions Deacon - gets one down to earth. PJD |
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| Bob Crowley | Saturday, 19. September 2009, 14:50 Post #21 |
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I think we need to separate Christian and secular definitions of "prophecy". From a purely secular view point, a prophecy is foretelling future events. Now this can come about in two ways. The first is to predict future events simply because the author has a profound knowledge of circumstances. There was an American author for example who predicted the fall of the Soviet Union about ten years before it happened, and gave an accurate time frame, but he was able to do so because he had an intimate knowledge of the Soviet situation. In short, his prophecy was based on intellectual analysis. Then there is, in regards to secular prophecy, what might be called sooth-saying. Some non-Christian people might have an ability to tell the future by spritual means, but the spirit might not be God. It could be demonic. The devil can see the future also, if not as clearly as God. But in the Christian sense, "prophecy" should be applicable to an individual within their Christian walk, or give a warning that God wants people to hear. |
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| Gerard | Sunday, 20. September 2009, 15:43 Post #22 |
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Well what about answering them then? what is a prophet? See Ian Petit's definition of prophecy above - and a prophet is a person who does that. Is being a prophet only restricted to a relationship to God? Depends what you mean by relationship. Can a person be considered a prophet if it only pertains to secular matters? if for example: can someone who sees that giving mortgages to people who can not repay them will eventually cause an crisis in the economic world be called a prophet? Absolutely! God is interested in justice, He is interested in secular matters - money, food, shelter, clothing, freedom etc. The prophet Amos was concerned greatly with wealth and the distribution of wealth and the exploitation of the poor. Is someone who sees and understands God's word and clearly sees what will ensue when we work and live in opposition a prophet? Yes, most certainly, and actually this was how the Big prophets that Power accepts as "prophets" actually worked. They may have heard the "still small voice" but by and large it was the Torah they preached. tending to say that Israel was no longer following the commands in the Torah and needed to come back. This is why I say that Rowan Williams is a prophet - and actually behaving very like an OT prophet. he sees the wrong and uses God's Word in the Bible to show what is wrong and to predict the likely consequencies. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Sunday, 20. September 2009, 15:44 Post #23 |
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And here is another question; Can a donkey be a prophet? Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Deacon Robert | Sunday, 20. September 2009, 15:49 Post #24 |
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balaam's donkey? yes. Same answers for the rest. A prophet is someone who can see the larger picture and exterpolate the probable outcome, whether it is through God's guidance or their own intellect. Edited by Deacon Robert, Sunday, 20. September 2009, 15:52.
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| Gerard | Sunday, 20. September 2009, 16:07 Post #25 |
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Balaams Donkey - Yes. Whats the point? Well if a Donkey can prophesy so can you. And if a donkey can prophesy then prophecy is hardly confined to a few Big OT "names". Gerry Edited by Gerard, Sunday, 20. September 2009, 16:15.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Deacon Robert | Sunday, 20. September 2009, 17:20 Post #26 |
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Gerry, show me where in this thread I ever said prophecy is limited to OT. I asked somw questions because others limited prophecy to only OT and insistance that all prophecy comes from God and is based on scripture My statement is . A prophet is someone who can see the larger picture and exterpolate the probable outcome, whether it is through God's guidance or their own intellect. Do you have a dog or cat? Even they with their limited intellect can understand their actions can result in a certain outcome. Edited by Deacon Robert, Sunday, 20. September 2009, 17:23.
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| Gerard | Sunday, 20. September 2009, 17:29 Post #27 |
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Dcn Robert, Not you - Powerofone! Powerofone said in another thread that there were no prophets after John the Baptist and seemed to consider that prophecy had ceased. Thats why I posted the prayer from Fridays Lauds as the second post in this thread. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| PJD | Sunday, 20. September 2009, 18:28 Post #28 |
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I found this in the dictionary under prophesy: (intr) Archaic to give instruction in religious subjects. I wondered whether or not visions were included in our search of a definition. Didn't think they were strictly speaking. But again found this in the dictionary under prophet sub.section Christian Science (b) "the vanishing of material sense to give way to the conscious facts of spiritual truth" That would appear to line up somewhat with visions placed within the intellectual category. PJD |
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| Gerard | Sunday, 20. September 2009, 18:36 Post #29 |
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PJD It is, indeed, difficult to define these things - and I think definitions need to be broad. One can always narrow dowm to sub categories. As regards visions - I immediately thought of John, in the Book of Revelation. That is almost entirely visions and no one would contest, I think, that it is prophecy. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| PJD | Sunday, 20. September 2009, 20:30 Post #30 |
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I agree Gerry. Perhaps we are getting somewhere in this search; a little further along. Shame PowerOfOne ducked out (joke) PJD |
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3:43 PM Jul 11