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| What is "Prophecy" ? | |
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| Topic Started: Friday, 18. September 2009, 09:55 (738 Views) | |
| Gerard | Friday, 18. September 2009, 09:55 Post #1 |
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Power, To continue our discussion from another thread it would help if we went back to the beginning. What is your definition of prophecy ? Gerard |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Friday, 18. September 2009, 10:28 Post #2 |
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I thought this was rather interesting and pertinent to this discussion. These are the Intercessions from this (18 Sept) morning's Lauds:
Colouring - mine. A link to Lauds: http://www.universalis.com/lauds.htm Gerry Edited by Gerard, Friday, 18. September 2009, 10:29.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Clare | Friday, 18. September 2009, 10:39 Post #3 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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I hope I'll be forgiven for checking The Catholic Encyclopedia!
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| OsullivanB | Friday, 18. September 2009, 11:01 Post #4 |
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Could that not be expressed more succinctly as: Prophecy is divinely inspired clairvoyance? |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Gerard | Friday, 18. September 2009, 11:24 Post #5 |
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No |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Friday, 18. September 2009, 11:32 Post #6 |
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Err, well actually - Yes, more or less. Which shows that the above passage, cut out from the (rather long and rambling) article, is not a good definition of prophecy. Gerry Edited by Gerard, Friday, 18. September 2009, 11:40.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Powerofone | Friday, 18. September 2009, 13:10 Post #7 |
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GerardThursday, 17. September 2009, 19:08 Sounds like an OT prophet to me. And that sounds like Amos.Sounds like - yes. In objective reality - no. Does any of them preface their remarks with the customary "And YHWH commanded me to speak unto you" or "It is the Lord who speaks"? No. Because they have not been sent out. Let's not confuse metaphor or analogy with objective reality. The commonly understood notion of a prophet is one who is sent by the Lord. It is a compulsion. Many complain and seek excuses that they are unable to cope or speak. Jonah even ran in the opposite direction to escape his responsibilities. In the NT, only one man receives this mission - John the Baptist. He is sent by the Lord. He was given special hidden knowledge of future events. To classify the post pentecostal events in the same light would be a mistake. |
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| Powerofone | Friday, 18. September 2009, 13:12 Post #8 |
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The ball's in your court Gerry. Supply a definition that surpasses the one above. |
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| PJD | Friday, 18. September 2009, 13:16 Post #9 |
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"Err, well actually - Yes, more or less. Which shows that the above passage, cut out from the (rather long and rambling) article, is not a good definition of prophecy. Gerry" I agree. The article in a certain sense faces two directions, each equal - presumably unable to articulate it otherwise. PJD |
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| Gerard | Friday, 18. September 2009, 13:35 Post #10 |
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Power, Will do, but first I would like to deal with your own quote:
I think we have the answer to all the difficulty in that first sentence:
The problem being that we are not taught what a prophet is or what prophecy is but we hear about it in Scripture and preaching and we come to a vague understanding of it which is usually wrong and usually something big and only for special people - not for us.
That would be an apostle.
So, now, I only need to show one other prophet in the NT to prove this statement wrong. Acts 21: 8 and 9 say:
Other translations say "four daughters who were prophets". So here are four for you. Ahh, but they are women and you said there was only one man? OK, lets look at the next verses. Acts 21:10 and 11 say:
Agabus was a man - clearly a prophet, revealed future things about the Paul and the Church. Enough now. Here is a good definition of prophecy. It is from a book by the well known teacher and preacher, the Priest and Monk, Fr Ian Petit.
Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Powerofone | Friday, 18. September 2009, 15:42 Post #11 |
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Just the nagging little voice then? No "Thus says the Lord". No "It is the Lord who speaks". How then is it to be distinguished from the promptings of an informed conscience? |
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| Gerard | Friday, 18. September 2009, 15:56 Post #12 |
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Right! No "Thus says the Lord" Believe me, I know people who begin with "Thus says the Lord", and sometimes it is. The promptings might be little Or they might be big ones. or they might be VERY BIG ones. How do we know its prophecy - we use our discernment. Which may be natural or itself a gift. In natural discernment we ask "does this sound like the God I know?" "does it tend towards agreement with Scripture or tend to contradict Scripture?" "does it tend towards agreement with Church Teaching does it tend to contradict Church Teaching?" With the gift of discernment you would just "know". With VERY BIG prophecies - the Bishop may choose to give an official discernment. Gerry Edited by Gerard, Friday, 18. September 2009, 16:47.
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| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Powerofone | Friday, 18. September 2009, 16:21 Post #13 |
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How then is prophesy to be distinguished from the promptings of an informed conscience? Words either have meaning or they don't. I'm not comfortable with a slushy ambiguous definition that covers a multitude. |
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| Gerard | Friday, 18. September 2009, 16:39 Post #14 |
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What is slushy or ambiguous about that? This is not maths or science its about the communication of God with His people. The words or picture (or whatever) given to one person - when spoken out to another person will have meaning in the life of that second person. Either to correct, encourage or advise. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Friday, 18. September 2009, 16:51 Post #15 |
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P.S. I agree it is a wide definition, but thats whats needed. Anything narrower will fall over. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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3:42 PM Jul 11