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Tony Blair & religion;; former PM's views & comments
Topic Started: Sunday, 24. June 2007, 17:35 (1,205 Views)
Lilo
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Rose of York
Dec 26 2007, 05:53 PM
A man cannot become King by marrying.  . . .So, Tony Blair can not be King.  I can see him trying to be Emperor of Europe. 

Oh, dear.

I'm not sure that's an improvement. :fire:

Thanks for the explanation, Rose. Out in the colonies it's difficult to keep all the details straight. :rofl:
The root problem in a lot of bad catechesis is ultimately not ignorance, but pride. ~ Mark Shea

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Rose of York
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This might interest some of our colonial cousins. ;)

http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page1.asp
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Rose of York
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To get back to the subject, we now have a former Prime Minister who is a Catholic. George Brown, a former deputy Prime Minister, was received into the Catholic Church hours before he died. At least two recent former leaders of opposition parties are Catholics. There was a time when Catholics could not be armed forces officers, judges, or public officials. People risked losing all their money and land if they adhered to the Catholic faith and, of course we had dozens of priests and laity martyred for offering or attending Mass, or hiding priests.

Prince Charles is, as the saying goes "into spirituality". I often wonder what would happen if he converted to Catholicism. Apart from needing to apply for annulment of his wife's former marriage, and marry in a Catholic Church, would the Government change the law, and repeal the Act of Succession? I personally think they would. I fancy the idea of His Holiness being guest of honour at a coronation at Westminster. Pope Benedict could say grace at the banquet.

It will be interesting to see how many closet Catholics declare themselves, now that Tony Blair has taken the lead.
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maklavan

Michaeljohn
Dec 23 2007, 09:09 PM
Quote:
 
It is sad to see Catholics making character assassinations based on the lies and concoctions of the tabloid Press.
maklavan, I am a simple man and was taught always to see the best in people. Perhaps you could explain this post and also tell me in what way it is not itself character assassination.
Perhaps you could also point me towards the specific "lies and concoctions" you refer to and which particular organ of "the tabloid Press" you are accusing.
In the interests of clarity and fairness, you understand.

1. "Now his baptism washed away all of his since. But his wife is a Catholic by birth and she knows that she shouldn't have purchased property the way that she did."

2. "As for being a "pick 'n' mix" Catholic it would perhaps be overly cynical to suggest that if he were to be he would probably feel quite at home with the majority of modern Catholics including, perhaps even especially, some members of the hierarchy."

3. "worry that not only will Blair not see his decisions as incompatible with Church teaching but that his parish priest and perhaps also his bishop may prefer not to challenge that misunderstanding."

4. "Imagine you're a priest confronted by a potential convert.

You say, "In order to become a Catholic, you must believe X, Y, and Z."

He says, "Well, my wife's a Catholic, and she doesn't!""

1. offends on two grounds. It asserts that Catholics are not allowed to err and repeats an accusation for which no shred of proof, no charge no trial was presented.

2. slanders the majority of modern Catholics and goes on to slander the hierarchy.

3. slanders Mr Blair, his parish priest and his bishop by alleging that his erroneous views will be ignored or condoned.

4. is a scurrilous attack on the integrity of Mrs Blair by asserting that she does not accept Catholic teachings.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
maklavan
Jan 1 2008, 05:54 PM
Michaeljohn
Dec 23 2007, 09:09 PM
Quote:
 
It is sad to see Catholics making character assassinations based on the lies and concoctions of the tabloid Press.
maklavan, I am a simple man and was taught always to see the best in people. Perhaps you could explain this post and also tell me in what way it is not itself character assassination.
Perhaps you could also point me towards the specific "lies and concoctions" you refer to and which particular organ of "the tabloid Press" you are accusing.
In the interests of clarity and fairness, you understand.

...

4. "Imagine you're a priest confronted by a potential convert.

You say, "In order to become a Catholic, you must believe X, Y, and Z."

He says, "Well, my wife's a Catholic, and she doesn't!""

4. is a scurrilous attack on the integrity of Mrs Blair by asserting that she does not accept Catholic teachings.

She doesn't, though! It is well-documented that she rejects Church teachings!
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Cherie Blair in Hello! magazine:

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Cherie also revealed that, despite being a practising Catholic, she was at odds with the Catholic church’s stance on birth control. In response to the question: “For the sake of the fight against world poverty, should the church change its teaching on birth control,” the premier’s wife answered with an unequivocal, “Yes”.

Saying her beliefs rested on “faith, hope and love” she added: “As a Catholic I am proud of the social mission of the church and its concerns for the poor and dispossessed, but I still personally would support women priests.”


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Tony Blair is to teach students at Yale University in the US when he leads a seminar on faith and globalisation.

The former prime minister has been appointed as a fellow at Yale and will begin teaching next year.

The prestigious Connecticut university said the work was related to Mr Blair's Faith Foundation which will be launched later this year.

Mr Blair's other appointments have included as a Middle East envoy and an adviser to investment bank JP Morgan.

Mr Blair has also left the Anglican Church to become a Roman Catholic since leaving office.

A statement said: "Yale University is pleased to announce the appointment of [former] Prime Minister Tony Blair as the Howland Distinguished Fellow for the next academic year.

"Mr Blair will lead a seminar at Yale and participate in a number of events around the campus."

Details of the course are being discussed with Yale's School of Management and Divinity.

Yale president Richard C Levin said Mr Blair's appointment was a "tremendous opportunity" for the university.

He said: "As the world continues to become increasingly inter-dependent, it is essential that we explore how religious values can be channelled toward reconciliation rather than polarisation.

"Mr Blair has demonstrated outstanding leadership in these areas and is especially qualified to bring his perspective to bear."
BBC News
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Rose of York
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Title of this thread:

Mr Blair goes to Yale.

Say it quickly, it sound like Mister Blair goes to 'ell.
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Rose of York
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Quote:
 
Yale president Richard C Levin said Mr Blair's appointment was a "tremendous opportunity" for the university.

He said: "As the world continues to become increasingly inter-dependent, it is essential that we explore how religious values can be channelled toward reconciliation rather than polarisation.


That is rubbish. During Tony Blair's term of office, the United Kingdom religious values were not channelled toward reconciliation rather than polarisation. Has the President of Yale heard of the Bradford and Oldham riots? Does he know about the increasing number of racially motivated attacks including murders, perpetrated by muslims on non muslims, and on non muslims by muslims? Has the President been made aware of the London bombs?

I cannot recall any efforts by Tony Blair, during his term of office as Prime Minister, to channel religious values towards reconciliation. True religious values need to channelling by politicians.

Quote:
 
Mr Blair has demonstrated outstanding leadership in these areas and is especially qualified to bring his perspective to bear."
BBC News


What qualifications? M.B.H.S. - Master Of Burying Head in Sand?
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Rose
You rightly mention Iraq which will haunt Tony Blair for ever, however history judges it in the end.

However, I think he deserves great credit for his magnificent contribution to the improvement in the Northern Ireland crisis. There was nothing in it for him in terms of votes, it must have been a terrible distraction from other issues but all sides have acknowledged the key role he played in securing the present remarkable settlement. And the qualities of reconciliation displayed there surely justify both this appointment and the Yale President's remarks.

It would be right in this context to pay tribute too to John Major his Tory predecessor who laid the foundations for this success. Even less in it for him electorally but again he fought hard to get things moving against what must have seemed insuperable odds. We all score easy points off politicians by ascribing mean and cynical motives to them. Occasionally we should praise the public-spiritedness which most of them try to bring to the job.


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Rose of York
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John, there was as strong political element in the Northern Ireland troubles.

Can you tell me what experience Tony Blair has, in successfully channelling religious values toward reconciliation rather than polarisation?
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Rose

Of course there are strong political issues involved . You are never going to have a clear-cut purist case of a Prime Minister using purely Christian principles of reconciliation without any political overtones. Nevertheless if Iraq is your example of why Mr Blair is not suited for this post then I think it is fair to flag up Northern Ireland as a case where political methods and Christian principles combined to produce one of the most remarkable reconciliations in recent history. Especially as there were very few electoral advantages to be gained.


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Rose of York
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John, when and where did I mention Iraq?

Credit must be given to Tony Blair and John Major for the achievements in Northern Ireland. It is all too easy to forget how serious things were over there. However, there is so much tension brewing in these islands, in respect of religious differences between muslims and Christians (including the nominal members of both faiths), that I honestly think little or nothing has been achieved by cabinet ministers to avert further riots, and the likelihood of large scale bloodshed.

Sorry, but I cannot see why Mr Blair is particularly well equipped for the post at Yale. I hope he does achieve something.
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Apologies Rose you didn't. I made the leap from your references to the London bombs etc

John
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Rose of York
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Daily Mail

Daily Mail
 
Protesters aim to drown out Blair's speech on religion after 'illegal war'

Anit-war protesters plan to create a "wall of sound" to disrupt Tony Blair's debut speech on religion, it emerged yesterday.

The former prime minister, a recent convert to the Roman Catholic Church, is to speak on the subject of "faith and globalisation" at Westminster Cathedral next Thursday.

Thousands of demonstrators who object to his role in taking Britain to war in Iraq are planning to disrupt the event by drowning out his words.

Robin Best of the Stop the War Coalition, which is organising the protest, said: "We want people to bring musical instruments and sound making implements of every kind - drums, trumpets, saxophones, violins, cymbals, whistles, sirens, horns, rattles, saucepans and cans to bang.

"We want every type of band, choir and musical group to join us, all with the aim of drowning out the speech of a man who should not be in a cathedral pulpit but in the dock of a criminal court."

He added: "No doubt Blair will be pontificating about the 'values' and 'morality' of his 'faith' and how they guided him in making 'difficult' decisions, like the slaughter of up to one million Iraqis and the total destruction of their country in an illegal war.

"Blair is a war criminal who should have been silenced five years ago by MPs in parliament, when they had the chance to vote against a war which they knew was opposed by the vast majority of people in this country."

A number of high-profile "celebrities", who have not yet been publicly named, are also expected to attend the protest and may speak against Mr Blair's role in the Iraq war.

Mr Blair was invited to give a lecture by Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, the spiritual leader of the Catholics of England and Wales who received him into the Church just days before Christmas.
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